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In my young ages I was hungry for new technology, learning and adapting the progress, experimenting. Nowadays I am for something that works and can be used for

In my young ages I was hungry for new technology, learning and adapting the progress, experimenting. Nowadays I am for something that works and can be used for what I need. Apple is good in the first, and gives no f* about the second. Their products - including hardware - is for the young. I think I am going to accept that and 'adapt mindset' to this premise as an ultimate step of not 'resisting change'. (I already gave up on the hardware btw)

goatinaboat 7y ago
Their products - including hardware - is for the young. I don’t think that’s it. Once upon a time a Rolex was a serious tool for professional pilots and divers but now it’s a status symbol. It still basically tells the time but no one buys it for that. Once upon a time a Mac...
- SiVal 7y ago
  I think there is something to this idea that Apple's products are for the young. Older folks like me learned to use computers as toolboxes of specialized tools that we could use in combination to create customized solutions to whatever we had to do. But Apple would rather sell you solutions (higher value-added) than sell you tools to make your own. By "courageously" taking things away from users, they frustrate older users who know how to do what they want for themselves, but Apple seems to be counting on a new generation of users who never learned to do things for themselves to be just fine with letting Apple do them. I always appreciated Apple's dedication to "quality", but the quality involved in computers as "bicycles for the mind" is not the Apple of today, where "quality" is about looking young, hip, fashionable, and somewhat wealthy.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Yes I see what you mean, but that is a bigger trend than just Apple e.g. Google keeps trying to hide URLs in Chrome so you can only get around the web by clicking links and running Google searches. But Apple is definitely trying to hide the concepts of files, filesystems etc from users, that is something I find particularly annoying
- NohatCoder 7y ago
  Difference is, I doubt Rolex could maintain brand status if they stopped making quality watches.
  - c256 7y ago
    Apple makes high-quality phones and tablets. Which is kind of the point.
new_realist 7y ago
What computing products “for the old” would you recommend?
alwillis 7y ago
I don't think their products are for the young. Short answer: I'm definitely not young—I started on an Apple II in high school. I do keep my software current and pay attention to things. I lived through 68000 -> PowerPC -> Intel, so I know how this goes. I've been running Catalina since the late betas and haven't experienced the issues others have, other than my old Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad not working with Catalina, which is kinda annoying, since I really like the extra keys, etc. instead of the Bluetooth keyboard that came with the iMac. Know what I did? I submitted a bug report to Apple. There's no doubt that Catalina (and iOS 13 for that matter) are more buggy than recent past upgrades, which is not good. I don't think it's Apple not caring; I think they're trying to do a whole lot with overlapping groups. If the rumors are true and there's a 16-inch MacBook Pro about to come out and ARM Macs will likely become a thing in 2020, I suspect a lot of engineers are juggling multiple projects across multiple groups and this is the result. I also switched to Zsh before I upgraded so I'd have my config all set before hand. So far, so good. And thank goodness for Homebrew and how quickly it had Catalina-compatible packages ready to go.
- alwillis 7y ago
  Looks I was partially right: https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-catalina-are-so-buggy/ https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-ca...
- aeorgnoieang 7y ago
  > I also switched to Zsh ... Wait, how hard is it going to be to keep running Bash?

goatinaboat 7y ago

Their products - including hardware - is for the young. I don’t think that’s it. Once upon a time a Rolex was a serious tool for professional pilots and divers but now it’s a status symbol. It still basically tells the time but no one buys it for that. Once upon a time a Mac...

SiVal 7y ago
I think there is something to this idea that Apple's products are for the young. Older folks like me learned to use computers as toolboxes of specialized tools that we could use in combination to create customized solutions to whatever we had to do. But Apple would rather sell you solutions (higher value-added) than sell you tools to make your own. By "courageously" taking things away from users, they frustrate older users who know how to do what they want for themselves, but Apple seems to be counting on a new generation of users who never learned to do things for themselves to be just fine with letting Apple do them. I always appreciated Apple's dedication to "quality", but the quality involved in computers as "bicycles for the mind" is not the Apple of today, where "quality" is about looking young, hip, fashionable, and somewhat wealthy.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Yes I see what you mean, but that is a bigger trend than just Apple e.g. Google keeps trying to hide URLs in Chrome so you can only get around the web by clicking links and running Google searches. But Apple is definitely trying to hide the concepts of files, filesystems etc from users, that is something I find particularly annoying
NohatCoder 7y ago
Difference is, I doubt Rolex could maintain brand status if they stopped making quality watches.
- c256 7y ago
  Apple makes high-quality phones and tablets. Which is kind of the point.

new_realist 7y ago

What computing products “for the old” would you recommend?

alwillis 7y ago

I don't think their products are for the young. Short answer: I'm definitely not young—I started on an Apple II in high school. I do keep my software current and pay attention to things. I lived through 68000 -> PowerPC -> Intel, so I know how this goes. I've been running Catalina since the late betas and haven't experienced the issues others have, other than my old Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad not working with Catalina, which is kinda annoying, since I really like the extra keys, etc. instead of the Bluetooth keyboard that came with the iMac. Know what I did? I submitted a bug report to Apple. There's no doubt that Catalina (and iOS 13 for that matter) are more buggy than recent past upgrades, which is not good. I don't think it's Apple not caring; I think they're trying to do a whole lot with overlapping groups. If the rumors are true and there's a 16-inch MacBook Pro about to come out and ARM Macs will likely become a thing in 2020, I suspect a lot of engineers are juggling multiple projects across multiple groups and this is the result. I also switched to Zsh before I upgraded so I'd have my config all set before hand. So far, so good. And thank goodness for Homebrew and how quickly it had Catalina-compatible packages ready to go.

alwillis 7y ago
Looks I was partially right: https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-catalina-are-so-buggy/ https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-ca...
aeorgnoieang 7y ago
> I also switched to Zsh ... Wait, how hard is it going to be to keep running Bash?