8 ms·

Unix Turns 50

251 points by velmu 7y ago

KibbutzDalia 7y ago
Another great thing from the Apollo era! It’s amazing how a well-designed API can last.
- majewsky 7y ago
  That's like asking "Why are people proud to be using an Apollo-era pathfinding algorithm?". If it works, it works. The only reason that fashion is so fast in the tech world is that we have not really built many things that stand the test of time. Unix, for all its flaws, is one of these things. Also, the Apollo era has some of the most amazing engineering achievements ever. Don't know why you would need to look down on that.
- simonblack 7y ago
  Probably the same reason that most people still drive horseless carriages, like they have done for over 120 years. We haven't found anything newer yet that works as well in both cases.
- bch 7y ago
  50 years ago, Unix came from the future and showed us that less is more, and a good collection of composable tools can take you an awful long way. Along the way it’s evolved, demonstrating its flexibility and also suffered campaigns[0][1] by juggernauts like Microsoft demonstrating its durability. It (Linux - Potayto potahto.) runs every single super computer in the TOPS[2] ranking (500 entries) and has for the last 4 years. I don’t actually know what iOS is, architecturally, but we know Android is also Unix (Linux), so it’s everywhere, serving us pretty well. What’s not to like? What would you suggest instead? [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_... [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/scalability-day-falls-short/ https://www.cnet.com/news/scalability-day-falls-short/ [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
  - loolatrix 7y ago
    iOS is Apple's mobile OS. Basically a Unix derivate. ;)
    - psv1 7y ago
      This is like Steve Jobs announcing that iPhone runs OS X in the very first iPhone keynote.
      - tambourine_man 7y ago
        Which is true
  - my123 7y ago
    iOS is a different OS but using the same Darwin core operating system, including XNU, the C library (+ a bunch of other ones) and launchd. Unix command-line tools aren't present except the bare minimum for crash dump purposes on release iOS. The full set of BSD tools is present on internal builds and they're installed while jailbreaking.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Android is Java based frameworks + ISO C and ISO C++ standard libraries. The fact that is has Linux under the covers is pretty much insignificant and completely transparent to userspace.
- m0xte 7y ago
  It fits in my head.
- enriquto 7y ago
  Because it is great! Vaccines are older than Apollo, yet we still depend proudly on them. The written language is even older, and it is still the justified source of a lot of human pride.
- tannhaeuser 7y ago
  I've learnt to become proficient on the Unix command line and vi over 30 years ago (on the company's own System V port, no less!). Best investment ever! Not only is it the environment most suited for development tasks, it also is consistently present on all systems I've worked on since. Navigating around Unix has long become part of my spinal chord/muscle memory. I can't count how many times I've heard the "man, we don't do the command line thing these days" meme. Like in late 90s from Windows fanboys. Or in 2000s from Java geeks who only knew their Java IDE and nothing else. Yet here we are working with clouds, containers, and FaaS based on POSIX principles.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Cloud and containers are based on OS/360 principles and ideas.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Is newer always better?
- damog 7y ago
  Why would you not be though?
- cycomachead 7y ago
  People are not using 50 year old operating systems. It's not as if Linux or macOS today are the same as Unix even in the 90's! People are proud that certain ideas have persisted 50 years. People are proud because many things beyond Linux and macOS can be traced to Unix and the philosophy it holds, but also Unix's place in the broader story of computing history. Bell Labs, Thompson, Ritchie and many more played foundational roles. Like any other anniversary, it's nice to look back and reflect and celebrate.
- kbumsik 7y ago
  Because the great idea never gets old.
- mseepgood 7y ago
  Because the Apollo era was awesome.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Sneaky edit :p It's not an Apollo era OS though, any more than a new car is a 50 year old car. They're both recognisably the same thing, but worlds apart - and have grown hugely in weight, power and included extras. I'm quite happy to find I don't have to keep relearning the basics of either. Whether car pedals in same place each time, or ps switches.
cycomachead 7y ago
Is it really today (Oct 22)? Not that I care about the specific date, I'm just wondering if there's a particular story as to why this date. It'd be cool to hear if it exists. A lot of other stories mention "summer". e.g. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/08/unix-at-50-it-starts-with-a-mainframe-a-gator-and-three-dedicated-researchers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/08/unix-at-50-it-starts...
- aap_ 7y ago
  I think the date is random. The bell labs page doesn't say that the birthday is today.
- sramsay 7y ago
  I feel like there should be a "UNIX Birthday observed." And the 50th would be January 1st, 2020, natch.
tibbydudeza 7y ago
There is thing to say for simplicity. At varsity we had the misfortune to using Sperry 1100 Univac system ... all I can remember it sure had a lot of "@" in it's JCL to get anything done. Third year we got a NCR "Tower" Unix system ... what a joy in comparison.
russellbeattie 7y ago
NOKIA Bell-Labs?? Apparently I missed something in the 7 years since I got laid off from the Finnish disaster...
- Nokinside 7y ago
  Bell-Labs is originally Bell System, then AT&T. Then AT&T spins Lucent Technologies. Lucent merges with Alcatel. Nokia buys Alcatel-Lucent 2016.
bluetomcat 7y ago
Unix was ahead of its time in its inception, but that same basic design fails to address many of the current challenges we face as software developers and users, hence the proliferation of package managers, the mind-blowing complexity of userland middleware, the thousands of CLI tools each with tens of options and modes. The simplicity of the basic Unix API means that much of the complexity is shifted elsewhere – in libraries, in middleware, in applications. Moreover, there is considerable overlap of functionality between many of these components.
- legulere 7y ago
  Even worse is the security model of Unix: Users are considered a threat and are isolated, code is seen as trusted by the user and exploits are not considered. The reality today are single user systems (And even if there are users, like for web services, the Unix user system is not used), where the code often cannot be trusted and almost always is exploitable.
  - rebolek 7y ago
    The problem is not Unix security model, but that it's not used. Even if there is one physical user, there are/should be tons of others, separated.
  - nabla9 7y ago
    If that's your worry, look at OpenBSD.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - legulere 7y ago
      It's a step in the right direction, but it's not as good as it could be, because it's hindered by compatibility with unix. A native process on its own can't do much harm. Only with syscalls can it access other processes, the network, hardware, files, etc. Executing some random code shouldn't be dangerous.
pjmlp 7y ago
> Unix started it all. Not really, plenty of other OSes came before UNIX, some of them still being sold to this day, e.g. Unysis ClearPath MCP.
- jstimpfle 7y ago
  Question, how does it compare to Unix? It seems to be a mainframe OS.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    First OS written in a high level programming language, without any kind of Assembly, back in 1961. The systems language was an Algol derivative named ESPOL, later replaced by NEWP a bit more powerful. Instead of requiring external Assembly support, ESPOL/NEWP have compiler intrisics for hardware access. One of the NEWP improvements was the introduction of UNSAFE code blocks, any binary with unsafe code is tainted and requires being greelighted by the administration for execution. It was originally known as Burroughs B5000, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_large_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_large_systems. Naturally Unisys uses the security and data integrity theme as the target segment for getting a ClearPath MCP toy. https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatHCXEkOsY&list=PLzXIyqnmO3G-NP-E1Zfa7KmVQLoQDLQ6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatHCXEkOsY&list=PLzXIyqnmO3... There are also Visual Studio plugins for developing remotely with ClearPath, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLx1Bc4lH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLx1Bc4lH0 A recent version of NEWP reference manual can be found at https://public.support.unisys.com/aseries/docs/clearpath-mcp-17.0/pdf/86002003-407.pdf https://public.support.unisys.com/aseries/docs/clearpath-mcp...
anotherevan 7y ago
“UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.” — Dennis Ritchie (1941–2011)
bantunes 7y ago
We need a new UNIX-like moment in OS research. BeOS had interesting ideas in the 90s, but every single new OS now has to be "crippled" by POSIX to support *NIX, or else it has no critical mass to grow. I'd like to see a MIT-licensed non-POSIX OS with a capable enough POSIX subsystem that would be eventually discarded as all software gets on board.
- wwarner 7y ago
  Kubernetes/orchestration/microservices is in this category imo. In a cloud environment, most of the facilities provided by the linux kernel are outsourced to the orchestration layer: security/access, process scheduling, persistence.
- tenebrisalietum 7y ago
  What do you think of Fuchsia?
  - bantunes 7y ago
    It shows promise, but not sure if it'll ever replace Android. Hope so!
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Given that they are porting ART to Fuchsia, most likely it will be Android with Linux replaced by Zirkom.
- gitgud 7y ago
  Why an MIT-license? The Linux project flourished because the GPL license forced upstream improvements right? I'm not sure that the MIT-license would have had the same impact on an opensource OS...
  - bluejekyll 7y ago
    I think that’s a very strong statement that Linux “flourished because of GPL”, there are plenty examples of large successful OSS projects that use more lenient licenses. It would probably be more accurate to discuss the people involved, the structure of governance of Linux, and the fact that GNU was mature enough to be the basis for a new OS.
orjan 7y ago
Don't miss The Unix Game (linked halfway down on the page)! https://www.unixgame.io/unix50 https://www.unixgame.io/unix50
sys_64738 7y ago
I thought it was Jan 1st 1970? That’s what the epoch time 0 says.
- fanf2 7y ago
  time_t originally counted jiffies (60 per second) and was reset several times in the early 1970s before is was changed to count seconds. This makes it hard to interpret filesystem timestamps preserved in early Unix dumps. The 1970 epoch was chosen when Unix was a few years old, as a convenient round number.
packetlost 7y ago
Going to plug for the SDF people and the cool http://unix50.org/ http://unix50.org/ project Ever want to know what Unix v1 was like on the PDP-11?
MichaelMoser123 7y ago
"Development started in 1969 First manual published internally in November 1971[1] Announced outside Bell Labs in October 1973" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix I am confused: what would be the birthday of unix? Would that be an initial release or the start of development?

Unix Turns 50

251 points by velmu 7y ago

KibbutzDalia 7y ago

Another great thing from the Apollo era! It’s amazing how a well-designed API can last.

majewsky 7y ago
That's like asking "Why are people proud to be using an Apollo-era pathfinding algorithm?". If it works, it works. The only reason that fashion is so fast in the tech world is that we have not really built many things that stand the test of time. Unix, for all its flaws, is one of these things. Also, the Apollo era has some of the most amazing engineering achievements ever. Don't know why you would need to look down on that.
simonblack 7y ago
Probably the same reason that most people still drive horseless carriages, like they have done for over 120 years. We haven't found anything newer yet that works as well in both cases.
bch 7y ago
50 years ago, Unix came from the future and showed us that less is more, and a good collection of composable tools can take you an awful long way. Along the way it’s evolved, demonstrating its flexibility and also suffered campaigns[0][1] by juggernauts like Microsoft demonstrating its durability. It (Linux - Potayto potahto.) runs every single super computer in the TOPS[2] ranking (500 entries) and has for the last 4 years. I don’t actually know what iOS is, architecturally, but we know Android is also Unix (Linux), so it’s everywhere, serving us pretty well. What’s not to like? What would you suggest instead? [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_... [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/scalability-day-falls-short/ https://www.cnet.com/news/scalability-day-falls-short/ [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
- loolatrix 7y ago
  iOS is Apple's mobile OS. Basically a Unix derivate. ;)
  - psv1 7y ago
    This is like Steve Jobs announcing that iPhone runs OS X in the very first iPhone keynote.
    - tambourine_man 7y ago
      Which is true
- my123 7y ago
  iOS is a different OS but using the same Darwin core operating system, including XNU, the C library (+ a bunch of other ones) and launchd. Unix command-line tools aren't present except the bare minimum for crash dump purposes on release iOS. The full set of BSD tools is present on internal builds and they're installed while jailbreaking.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Android is Java based frameworks + ISO C and ISO C++ standard libraries. The fact that is has Linux under the covers is pretty much insignificant and completely transparent to userspace.
m0xte 7y ago
It fits in my head.
enriquto 7y ago
Because it is great! Vaccines are older than Apollo, yet we still depend proudly on them. The written language is even older, and it is still the justified source of a lot of human pride.
tannhaeuser 7y ago
I've learnt to become proficient on the Unix command line and vi over 30 years ago (on the company's own System V port, no less!). Best investment ever! Not only is it the environment most suited for development tasks, it also is consistently present on all systems I've worked on since. Navigating around Unix has long become part of my spinal chord/muscle memory. I can't count how many times I've heard the "man, we don't do the command line thing these days" meme. Like in late 90s from Windows fanboys. Or in 2000s from Java geeks who only knew their Java IDE and nothing else. Yet here we are working with clouds, containers, and FaaS based on POSIX principles.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Cloud and containers are based on OS/360 principles and ideas.
ekianjo 7y ago
Is newer always better?
damog 7y ago
Why would you not be though?
cycomachead 7y ago
People are not using 50 year old operating systems. It's not as if Linux or macOS today are the same as Unix even in the 90's! People are proud that certain ideas have persisted 50 years. People are proud because many things beyond Linux and macOS can be traced to Unix and the philosophy it holds, but also Unix's place in the broader story of computing history. Bell Labs, Thompson, Ritchie and many more played foundational roles. Like any other anniversary, it's nice to look back and reflect and celebrate.
kbumsik 7y ago
Because the great idea never gets old.
mseepgood 7y ago
Because the Apollo era was awesome.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Sneaky edit :p It's not an Apollo era OS though, any more than a new car is a 50 year old car. They're both recognisably the same thing, but worlds apart - and have grown hugely in weight, power and included extras. I'm quite happy to find I don't have to keep relearning the basics of either. Whether car pedals in same place each time, or ps switches.

cycomachead 7y ago

Is it really today (Oct 22)? Not that I care about the specific date, I'm just wondering if there's a particular story as to why this date. It'd be cool to hear if it exists. A lot of other stories mention "summer". e.g. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/08/unix-at-50-it-starts-with-a-mainframe-a-gator-and-three-dedicated-researchers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/08/unix-at-50-it-starts...

aap_ 7y ago
I think the date is random. The bell labs page doesn't say that the birthday is today.
sramsay 7y ago
I feel like there should be a "UNIX Birthday observed." And the 50th would be January 1st, 2020, natch.

tibbydudeza 7y ago

There is thing to say for simplicity. At varsity we had the misfortune to using Sperry 1100 Univac system ... all I can remember it sure had a lot of "@" in it's JCL to get anything done. Third year we got a NCR "Tower" Unix system ... what a joy in comparison.

russellbeattie 7y ago

NOKIA Bell-Labs?? Apparently I missed something in the 7 years since I got laid off from the Finnish disaster...

Nokinside 7y ago
Bell-Labs is originally Bell System, then AT&T. Then AT&T spins Lucent Technologies. Lucent merges with Alcatel. Nokia buys Alcatel-Lucent 2016.

bluetomcat 7y ago

Unix was ahead of its time in its inception, but that same basic design fails to address many of the current challenges we face as software developers and users, hence the proliferation of package managers, the mind-blowing complexity of userland middleware, the thousands of CLI tools each with tens of options and modes. The simplicity of the basic Unix API means that much of the complexity is shifted elsewhere – in libraries, in middleware, in applications. Moreover, there is considerable overlap of functionality between many of these components.

legulere 7y ago
Even worse is the security model of Unix: Users are considered a threat and are isolated, code is seen as trusted by the user and exploits are not considered. The reality today are single user systems (And even if there are users, like for web services, the Unix user system is not used), where the code often cannot be trusted and almost always is exploitable.
- rebolek 7y ago
  The problem is not Unix security model, but that it's not used. Even if there is one physical user, there are/should be tons of others, separated.
- nabla9 7y ago
  If that's your worry, look at OpenBSD.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - legulere 7y ago
    It's a step in the right direction, but it's not as good as it could be, because it's hindered by compatibility with unix. A native process on its own can't do much harm. Only with syscalls can it access other processes, the network, hardware, files, etc. Executing some random code shouldn't be dangerous.

pjmlp 7y ago

> Unix started it all. Not really, plenty of other OSes came before UNIX, some of them still being sold to this day, e.g. Unysis ClearPath MCP.

jstimpfle 7y ago
Question, how does it compare to Unix? It seems to be a mainframe OS.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  First OS written in a high level programming language, without any kind of Assembly, back in 1961. The systems language was an Algol derivative named ESPOL, later replaced by NEWP a bit more powerful. Instead of requiring external Assembly support, ESPOL/NEWP have compiler intrisics for hardware access. One of the NEWP improvements was the introduction of UNSAFE code blocks, any binary with unsafe code is tainted and requires being greelighted by the administration for execution. It was originally known as Burroughs B5000, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_large_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_large_systems. Naturally Unisys uses the security and data integrity theme as the target segment for getting a ClearPath MCP toy. https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatHCXEkOsY&list=PLzXIyqnmO3G-NP-E1Zfa7KmVQLoQDLQ6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatHCXEkOsY&list=PLzXIyqnmO3... There are also Visual Studio plugins for developing remotely with ClearPath, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLx1Bc4lH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLx1Bc4lH0 A recent version of NEWP reference manual can be found at https://public.support.unisys.com/aseries/docs/clearpath-mcp-17.0/pdf/86002003-407.pdf https://public.support.unisys.com/aseries/docs/clearpath-mcp...

anotherevan 7y ago

“UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.” — Dennis Ritchie (1941–2011)

bantunes 7y ago

We need a new UNIX-like moment in OS research. BeOS had interesting ideas in the 90s, but every single new OS now has to be "crippled" by POSIX to support *NIX, or else it has no critical mass to grow. I'd like to see a MIT-licensed non-POSIX OS with a capable enough POSIX subsystem that would be eventually discarded as all software gets on board.

wwarner 7y ago
Kubernetes/orchestration/microservices is in this category imo. In a cloud environment, most of the facilities provided by the linux kernel are outsourced to the orchestration layer: security/access, process scheduling, persistence.
tenebrisalietum 7y ago
What do you think of Fuchsia?
- bantunes 7y ago
  It shows promise, but not sure if it'll ever replace Android. Hope so!
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Given that they are porting ART to Fuchsia, most likely it will be Android with Linux replaced by Zirkom.
gitgud 7y ago
Why an MIT-license? The Linux project flourished because the GPL license forced upstream improvements right? I'm not sure that the MIT-license would have had the same impact on an opensource OS...
- bluejekyll 7y ago
  I think that’s a very strong statement that Linux “flourished because of GPL”, there are plenty examples of large successful OSS projects that use more lenient licenses. It would probably be more accurate to discuss the people involved, the structure of governance of Linux, and the fact that GNU was mature enough to be the basis for a new OS.

orjan 7y ago

Don't miss The Unix Game (linked halfway down on the page)! https://www.unixgame.io/unix50 https://www.unixgame.io/unix50

sys_64738 7y ago

I thought it was Jan 1st 1970? That’s what the epoch time 0 says.

fanf2 7y ago
time_t originally counted jiffies (60 per second) and was reset several times in the early 1970s before is was changed to count seconds. This makes it hard to interpret filesystem timestamps preserved in early Unix dumps. The 1970 epoch was chosen when Unix was a few years old, as a convenient round number.

packetlost 7y ago

Going to plug for the SDF people and the cool http://unix50.org/ http://unix50.org/ project Ever want to know what Unix v1 was like on the PDP-11?

MichaelMoser123 7y ago

"Development started in 1969 First manual published internally in November 1971[1] Announced outside Bell Labs in October 1973" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix I am confused: what would be the birthday of unix? Would that be an initial release or the start of development?