4 ms·

Me thinks maybe you haven't actually played Nintendo games if you believe they are bland compared to a game with 650 repetitive puzzles that would have been jus

Me thinks maybe you haven't actually played Nintendo games if you believe they are bland compared to a game with 650 repetitive puzzles that would have been just as interesting (or non-interesting) as a 2D game on a phone. Yes, I get there is a context in the game and a big reveal (and I enjoyed the game) but I don't agree that 650 puzzles is less bland than my time spent in Breath of the Wild. I also don't agree that "Indie" = "better" or "unique". AAA companies, especially Sony and Nintendo have released amazingly creative games. Just a few from Nintendo include Pikman, Animal Crossing, 1-2 Switch (cow milking), Cubivore, and there are several others. Meanwhile 99% of "indie" games are skinned versions of old games who's best examples are often Nintendo's. How many "Metroid"vanias are there? How many Smash Bros clones? As one more final point, the games made at big companies are made by actual people who poor their creativity into the games they make. Indies don't have a monopoly on creativity. Being AAA != can't be creative nor does it mean can't take risks on new ideas. There are plenty of examples of new ideas from these companies.

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
I didn't say indie games were better, nor did I imply that most indie games are better than most AAA games. But I strongly disagree that the most creative or the best game will ever be mainstream. When is the last time a AAA game came out like Baba Is You? Celeste? Hollow Knight? Those are games I play and replay because they're so enjoyable and memorable. Nintendo makes great games but I don't feel any of them are quite the same experience as the best indie games I've played.
- cousin_it 7y ago
  Celeste is a Mario-like, Mario was mainstream. Hollow Knight is a metroidvania, Super Metroid and Castlevania were mainstream. The Witness is a Myst-like, Myst was mainstream. I like the indie scene as much as the next guy, but it's 90% based in nostalgia.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    I chose Celeste and Hollow Knight for being the best in the genre, not for creating a genre. The creative game I mentioned is Baba Is You.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
emsy 7y ago
>especially Sony and Nintendo have released amazingly creative games I mean, what does that even mean? If we use the analogy of movies, where the medium as an art form is more established: Pixar movies are creative, but they can still be bland (most of them are anyway). Yes, some Nintendo games pushed games as a medium forward, but I don't remember any Nintendo or Sony game that pushed in the direction Braid or The Witness did. Very few games do actually. "Games" games are more like toys. I enjoy playing with them, but I don't step away from them and think deeply about the experience I had. And I wish more games would strive for that kind of experience. >Meanwhile 99% of "indie" games are skinned versions of old games who's best examples are often Nintendo's. How many "Metroid"vanias are there? How many Smash Bros clones? Compare that to what the parent comment said >but they're not nearly as unique an experience as you'll find from some indie developers.
- thethirdone 7y ago
  > Pixar movies are creative, but they can still be bland (most of them are anyway). By a matter of definition, I would expect any creative media to not be bland. Even if every other part of it is boring the exploration of the creative ideas in it should be stimulating. > I don't remember any Nintendo or Sony game that pushed in the direction Braid or The Witness did I'm not sure what direction you are referring to. I don't think that either has really influenced gaming as a medium. The closest game I can think of as a comparison for Braid would be Portal and I think it also didn't really push any boundaries for games. The Witness is still a little young, but I don't think its likely to lead the way for other games either. On the other hand, I think the original Metroid and Legend of Zelda radically pushed forward what games can do. I think both of them would make you think deeply about the experience of playing them if you played them in their time.
gorgoiler 7y ago
It’s unfair to say that The Witness can be reduced to a stack of simple 2D puzzles. No spoilers, but almost every set of 523 main puzzles in The Witness has a twist that requires a full 3D environment in really interesting ways. The +135 +6 bonus puzzles require a 3D to 2D transition, but only ironically.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  How many sets of 523 puzzles are there? Aren't almost all the puzzles 2D graph paper mazes?
  - gorgoiler 7y ago
    Each different area on the island requires some part of the surrounding environment to solve the puzzles. The ones that are just 2D maze drawing really are just warm ups for when the mechanics get twisted by the 3D world around you. Good luck!

OnlineGladiator 7y ago

I didn't say indie games were better, nor did I imply that most indie games are better than most AAA games. But I strongly disagree that the most creative or the best game will ever be mainstream. When is the last time a AAA game came out like Baba Is You? Celeste? Hollow Knight? Those are games I play and replay because they're so enjoyable and memorable. Nintendo makes great games but I don't feel any of them are quite the same experience as the best indie games I've played.

cousin_it 7y ago
Celeste is a Mario-like, Mario was mainstream. Hollow Knight is a metroidvania, Super Metroid and Castlevania were mainstream. The Witness is a Myst-like, Myst was mainstream. I like the indie scene as much as the next guy, but it's 90% based in nostalgia.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  I chose Celeste and Hollow Knight for being the best in the genre, not for creating a genre. The creative game I mentioned is Baba Is You.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

emsy 7y ago

>especially Sony and Nintendo have released amazingly creative games I mean, what does that even mean? If we use the analogy of movies, where the medium as an art form is more established: Pixar movies are creative, but they can still be bland (most of them are anyway). Yes, some Nintendo games pushed games as a medium forward, but I don't remember any Nintendo or Sony game that pushed in the direction Braid or The Witness did. Very few games do actually. "Games" games are more like toys. I enjoy playing with them, but I don't step away from them and think deeply about the experience I had. And I wish more games would strive for that kind of experience. >Meanwhile 99% of "indie" games are skinned versions of old games who's best examples are often Nintendo's. How many "Metroid"vanias are there? How many Smash Bros clones? Compare that to what the parent comment said >but they're not nearly as unique an experience as you'll find from some indie developers.

thethirdone 7y ago
> Pixar movies are creative, but they can still be bland (most of them are anyway). By a matter of definition, I would expect any creative media to not be bland. Even if every other part of it is boring the exploration of the creative ideas in it should be stimulating. > I don't remember any Nintendo or Sony game that pushed in the direction Braid or The Witness did I'm not sure what direction you are referring to. I don't think that either has really influenced gaming as a medium. The closest game I can think of as a comparison for Braid would be Portal and I think it also didn't really push any boundaries for games. The Witness is still a little young, but I don't think its likely to lead the way for other games either. On the other hand, I think the original Metroid and Legend of Zelda radically pushed forward what games can do. I think both of them would make you think deeply about the experience of playing them if you played them in their time.

gorgoiler 7y ago

It’s unfair to say that The Witness can be reduced to a stack of simple 2D puzzles. No spoilers, but almost every set of 523 main puzzles in The Witness has a twist that requires a full 3D environment in really interesting ways. The +135 +6 bonus puzzles require a 3D to 2D transition, but only ironically.

lonelappde 7y ago
How many sets of 523 puzzles are there? Aren't almost all the puzzles 2D graph paper mazes?
- gorgoiler 7y ago
  Each different area on the island requires some part of the surrounding environment to solve the puzzles. The ones that are just 2D maze drawing really are just warm ups for when the mechanics get twisted by the 3D world around you. Good luck!