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Normal people finally got on the internet and the average person can’t create shit. All they can do is bitch and moan, be horrible to others, and be surveilled

Normal people finally got on the internet and the average person can’t create shit. All they can do is bitch and moan, be horrible to others, and be surveilled and controlled. And that’s what we got. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

pmlnr 7y ago
There's a musician called Kebu, who's work has high similarities to Jean-Michel Jarre's. Question: if Kebu was born the time Jarre was born, wih the same influences, and the same opportunities, could he have created his music without the set path of Jarre? (This is not in any way attacking his work, it's merely a theoretical question). Visionaries are extremely rare. Most of us follow and copy existing work. All that said, I think your words are a bit too harsh. Average person are not that bad at creating, they are bad at willing to create, they tend to lack the drive to do so.
onion2k 7y ago
the average person can’t create shit I think you're confusing not being able to create things with not being able to compete with people who are truly good at what they do. Everyone can create stuff, it's just that most people aren't very good at it because they've not yet mastered what they're doing. The thing is though, that doesn't matter. If they enjoy the creative process then that's more than enough.
soulofmischief 7y ago
A slightly different take on Eternal September: In the old days, when you joined a community it could be very insular. That's okay, there were communities for everything and everyone. So you had to read the rules, learn the lingo, and shut up and lurk for a while so you didn't invoke the wrath of the mods. Or you were gone. Anti-social, attention-seeking, spammy, obnoxious or controlling behavior was simply not tolerated. What right did you have to come into another's home and begin making demands as to how they live their lives? All of that has changed. The above behaviors are the new norm, thanks to the simultaneous nature of the walled gardens of social media and the fact that the walls are low enough that everyone can see into your garden. Suddenly you have nosy neighbors saying, "Hey, I'll be honest, that crabgrass in your lawn is making it harder to appreciate the beauty of my own lawn. Maybe you should clean it up, everyone else is doing it, so you must be anti-social if you don't. The entire meaning of the word "anti-social" has completely changed. I would consider most modern online communities to be extremely anti-social. The only answer is a return to form, going back to individual communities where we can more freely express our opinions, just making sure to network our communities in such a way that compassion and sincerity flourish, and we don't just return to the echo chambers of the 90's (they did exist!).
- theNJR 7y ago
  The reason most the web has been neutered is why Hacker News is so great.https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259
  - Krasnol 7y ago
    /s? There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions. Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also. This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Parent misses the point. Hacker News is an example of what one specimen in a healthy ecosystem of forums would look like. However, we do not have a healthy ecosystem, and as such Hacker News comes off as oppressive to those with outlier opinions, because another forum of equal quality (both content and diversity of users), similar size and a similar topic of discourse doesn't really exist. Being banished from HN means being banished from what some consider to be the upper echelons of discussion around the tech and startup scene.
      - theNJR 7y ago
        That's the nature of large groups of people though. If the outlier opinions have merit, shouldn't there be a forum for their expression?
        soulofmischief 7y ago
        I can only post 4 comments every two or so hours, effectively prohibiting me from most of the fast-paced front page discussion and overall prohibiting me from engaging. Why? Because I likened whale poaching to genocide [0]. I didn't even believe I was sharing a controversial opinion, because apparently that is starting a flame war and I've been warned for it before after asking a relatively simple (and apparently naive) question about black holes and getting engaged by a vitriolic and hateful user who kept flagging me while simultaneously calling me names and hurling insults. But here I am, because Reddit is garbage, 4chan has melted, and niche forums are dying and the bulk of communication is no longer taking place within them. And there are so many amazing and talented people to draw inspiration from on HN. In my town's local subreddit, I am similarly severely limited to a few posts every couple of hours, because I voiced the opinion in what is apparently a majority conservative subreddit that someone was making racist, unempathetic comments regarding black people and pitbulls. I'm considering going back to a bunch of email lists... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20326029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20326029

pmlnr 7y ago

There's a musician called Kebu, who's work has high similarities to Jean-Michel Jarre's. Question: if Kebu was born the time Jarre was born, wih the same influences, and the same opportunities, could he have created his music without the set path of Jarre? (This is not in any way attacking his work, it's merely a theoretical question). Visionaries are extremely rare. Most of us follow and copy existing work. All that said, I think your words are a bit too harsh. Average person are not that bad at creating, they are bad at willing to create, they tend to lack the drive to do so.

onion2k 7y ago

the average person can’t create shit I think you're confusing not being able to create things with not being able to compete with people who are truly good at what they do. Everyone can create stuff, it's just that most people aren't very good at it because they've not yet mastered what they're doing. The thing is though, that doesn't matter. If they enjoy the creative process then that's more than enough.

soulofmischief 7y ago

A slightly different take on Eternal September: In the old days, when you joined a community it could be very insular. That's okay, there were communities for everything and everyone. So you had to read the rules, learn the lingo, and shut up and lurk for a while so you didn't invoke the wrath of the mods. Or you were gone. Anti-social, attention-seeking, spammy, obnoxious or controlling behavior was simply not tolerated. What right did you have to come into another's home and begin making demands as to how they live their lives? All of that has changed. The above behaviors are the new norm, thanks to the simultaneous nature of the walled gardens of social media and the fact that the walls are low enough that everyone can see into your garden. Suddenly you have nosy neighbors saying, "Hey, I'll be honest, that crabgrass in your lawn is making it harder to appreciate the beauty of my own lawn. Maybe you should clean it up, everyone else is doing it, so you must be anti-social if you don't. The entire meaning of the word "anti-social" has completely changed. I would consider most modern online communities to be extremely anti-social. The only answer is a return to form, going back to individual communities where we can more freely express our opinions, just making sure to network our communities in such a way that compassion and sincerity flourish, and we don't just return to the echo chambers of the 90's (they did exist!).

theNJR 7y ago
The reason most the web has been neutered is why Hacker News is so great.https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20032259
- Krasnol 7y ago
  /s? There are strong opinions here on certain topics that are not to be crossed or you'll be punished by the upper class that is allowed to downvote. A class that has established itself by following those opinions. Also "newb-style" talk is not welcome also. This is just as elitist as your average "scene" board these days. Not great not terrible.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    Parent misses the point. Hacker News is an example of what one specimen in a healthy ecosystem of forums would look like. However, we do not have a healthy ecosystem, and as such Hacker News comes off as oppressive to those with outlier opinions, because another forum of equal quality (both content and diversity of users), similar size and a similar topic of discourse doesn't really exist. Being banished from HN means being banished from what some consider to be the upper echelons of discussion around the tech and startup scene.
    - theNJR 7y ago
      That's the nature of large groups of people though. If the outlier opinions have merit, shouldn't there be a forum for their expression?
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        I can only post 4 comments every two or so hours, effectively prohibiting me from most of the fast-paced front page discussion and overall prohibiting me from engaging. Why? Because I likened whale poaching to genocide [0]. I didn't even believe I was sharing a controversial opinion, because apparently that is starting a flame war and I've been warned for it before after asking a relatively simple (and apparently naive) question about black holes and getting engaged by a vitriolic and hateful user who kept flagging me while simultaneously calling me names and hurling insults. But here I am, because Reddit is garbage, 4chan has melted, and niche forums are dying and the bulk of communication is no longer taking place within them. And there are so many amazing and talented people to draw inspiration from on HN. In my town's local subreddit, I am similarly severely limited to a few posts every couple of hours, because I voiced the opinion in what is apparently a majority conservative subreddit that someone was making racist, unempathetic comments regarding black people and pitbulls. I'm considering going back to a bunch of email lists... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20326029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20326029