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If we expand the ranking to native historical names, I've always found the presence of somewhat derogatory or just absurd names among ancient Chinese figures fa

If we expand the ranking to native historical names, I've always found the presence of somewhat derogatory or just absurd names among ancient Chinese figures fascinating and have a hard time fathoming why a parent would gives these to a child. Note the following are not nicknames. These are given names. Some I can chalk up to probably being purely phonetic spellings (不寿 a.k.a. Not-Long-Lived a king of Yue 越, who doesn't seem to have lived a particularly short life, but his date of birth is unknown). Others to their names later taking on negative connotations because of their own actions (嫪毐 Lao Ai where 毐 later became used to describe immoral people, presumably because he pretended to be a eunuch, slept with the mother of Qin Shihuangdi, the first emperor of China, and then led a failed revolution against the emperor's father, the king of Qin. His whole story is insane. He's a performer who does tricks with his large penis who got used in a game of political intrigue by Lu Buwei to protect Lu Buwei from the king of Qin.). There still others that maybe had their names invented or twisted to suit stories. See for example 牛缺(Lacking Niu), a high-ranking scholar who appears in 吕氏春秋 (Master Lu's Spring and Autumn Annals) who goes on a trip through the desert, has everything stolen from him, and then is later killed by his robbers for good measure. And yet others may be a result of trying to ward off evil or encourage modesty by intentionally giving children modest or unappealing names. However, there's some, especially from the Warring States and earlier, that just seem to be inexplicably absurd names, with a large focus on "not." 晋黑臀 (Black-Butt Jin), also known by his title Duke Cheng of Jin. Perhaps he just had very literal parents. 叔孙不敢 (Doesn't-Dare/Not-Brave Shusun), a Lu court official. Sure his father tried and failed to help Duke Zhao of Lu, but the historical account makes it sound like that probably happened after Doesn't-Dare's birth. 韩不信/韩不佞 (Not-Credible Han/Unworthy Han). Granted the latter could also mean not given to sophistry, but still why would you take that chance with a child (both meanings are attested to in fairly ancient sources)? 秦非 (Not Qin, note order is flipped compared to English names so it's literally Qin Not). A disciple of Confucius. 皇非我 (Not-Me Huang). An official of the kingdom of Song. Again maybe a result of traditions trying to protect children from evil spirits, but I still find it rather amusing. I've never really heard a good explanation for these, other than given names didn't really matter back then, rather it was adult honorary names (e.g. Zi or 字) that mattered more, which sure I guess I can believe. On the other hand, if that was the case I'd expect a cornucopia of awful names rather than the comparatively few, but still abnormally many, that I observe now.

morningseagulls 7y ago
>皇非我 (Not-Me Huang). An official of the kingdom of Song. Again maybe a result of traditions trying to protect children from evil spirits, but I still find it rather amusing. I'd think that, since 皇 means "emperor", the name is protective in the sense that it's trying to say "no, no, I'm not the emperor". >I've never really heard a good explanation for these, other than given names didn't really matter back then, rather it was adult honorary names (e.g. Zi or 字) that mattered more, which sure I guess I can believe. On the other hand, if that was the case I'd expect a cornucopia of awful names rather than the comparatively few, but still abnormally many, that I observe now. Presumably, honorary names are the ones that are recorded, since they mattered more, not the awful names given by your parents or nicknames.
- dwohnitmok 7y ago
  This came before the usage of 皇 to broadly mean emperor (i.e. during the Spring and Autumn period before the Qin dynasty), although it is used to describe the three mythical emperors. Here it's a clan name (氏), the common clan name of the kingdom of Song. When recording names in historical records usually the given name as well as honorary name are given as well (honorary names of these figures are all recorded alongside these given names and are far more ordinary).
  - morningseagulls 7y ago
    >This came before the usage of 皇 to broadly mean emperor (i.e. during the Spring and Autumn period before the Qin dynasty), although it is used to describe the three mythical emperors. Here it's a clan name (氏), the common clan name of the kingdom of Song. Good to know. >When recording names in historical records usually the given name as well as honorary name are given as well (honorary names of these figures are all recorded alongside these given names and are far more ordinary). I think the unusual names you've come across are those that've slipped through the cracks. In any case, Chinese men back then would have been given a few names before they reached adulthood: usually, a "milk name" from their parents and another (usually more dignified) name when they attend school. The honorary name comes much later. The unusual names may have been "milk names" that survived the cull because the bearers might not have attended school, for example. Of course, the practice hasn't survived into the modern age, but you still see this practice in the Arabic world, where people can have multiple aliases. So what you labelled as the "given name" need not be the "given name" we understand today, but just the name that's survived to adulthood that's not the honorary name, which comes later.

morningseagulls 7y ago

>皇非我 (Not-Me Huang). An official of the kingdom of Song. Again maybe a result of traditions trying to protect children from evil spirits, but I still find it rather amusing. I'd think that, since 皇 means "emperor", the name is protective in the sense that it's trying to say "no, no, I'm not the emperor". >I've never really heard a good explanation for these, other than given names didn't really matter back then, rather it was adult honorary names (e.g. Zi or 字) that mattered more, which sure I guess I can believe. On the other hand, if that was the case I'd expect a cornucopia of awful names rather than the comparatively few, but still abnormally many, that I observe now. Presumably, honorary names are the ones that are recorded, since they mattered more, not the awful names given by your parents or nicknames.

dwohnitmok 7y ago
This came before the usage of 皇 to broadly mean emperor (i.e. during the Spring and Autumn period before the Qin dynasty), although it is used to describe the three mythical emperors. Here it's a clan name (氏), the common clan name of the kingdom of Song. When recording names in historical records usually the given name as well as honorary name are given as well (honorary names of these figures are all recorded alongside these given names and are far more ordinary).
- morningseagulls 7y ago
  >This came before the usage of 皇 to broadly mean emperor (i.e. during the Spring and Autumn period before the Qin dynasty), although it is used to describe the three mythical emperors. Here it's a clan name (氏), the common clan name of the kingdom of Song. Good to know. >When recording names in historical records usually the given name as well as honorary name are given as well (honorary names of these figures are all recorded alongside these given names and are far more ordinary). I think the unusual names you've come across are those that've slipped through the cracks. In any case, Chinese men back then would have been given a few names before they reached adulthood: usually, a "milk name" from their parents and another (usually more dignified) name when they attend school. The honorary name comes much later. The unusual names may have been "milk names" that survived the cull because the bearers might not have attended school, for example. Of course, the practice hasn't survived into the modern age, but you still see this practice in the Arabic world, where people can have multiple aliases. So what you labelled as the "given name" need not be the "given name" we understand today, but just the name that's survived to adulthood that's not the honorary name, which comes later.