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A guy I was hanging out with a hackathon this weekend was using a chromebook with crouton. An update broke his crouton intsallation and he had to find another e

A guy I was hanging out with a hackathon this weekend was using a chromebook with crouton. An update broke his crouton intsallation and he had to find another editor and another way to spin up services, containers, etc. If you're running a linux container on a machine with a bootloader you don't control, the manufacturer can pull your card at any time for no reason. I refuse to live that way if I have a choice, even if it means crappy hardware. :p

chx 7y ago
Note you can get (very) old ThinkPads for a pittance which will be a much better platform for running Linux. Many actually prefer the T420/X220 for its keyboard and the performance is not as bad as one would think from the eight years passed since its release. As https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/4 https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v... attests from Sandy Bridge (2011 ThinkPad) to Kaby Lake (2017 ThinkPad) IPC only grew by 20%, the big changes were in efficiency allowing the move from 35W CPUs to 15W CPUs. Also, if you are just slightly handy, you could use the T430/X230 with the old keyboard hacked onto them. If you are even more handy, you could install a converter board and a full HD screen. If you are doing this to a T430s with an i7 CPU without an nVidia GPU you even get Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt 1 for sure but still, a converter allows you to attach TB3 devices. A T430s hacked so is basically the poor man's ThinkPad 25 which is the pinnacle of laptops. (Not counting the T480-ThinkPad 25 Frankenpad which is nuts.)
- elipsey 7y ago
  I am typing this on $150 refurbished x230, I also have a t440s with a retrofitted IPS screen, and t450 touchpad. shhhhh..... stop telling the other hackers, they will buy them all! XD
  - 0xfaded 7y ago
    My t440s screen just died :(
    - elipsey 7y ago
      /hugs. don't despair, you can get a new one for 40 bucks. that's what's so great about these things! https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440s-14-Laptop-LCD-Screen-Complete-Assembly/143418503773?epid=2294799867&hash=item216468b25d:g:8XYAAOSwjqJdrhlG https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440s-14-Laptop...
  - imglorp 7y ago
    So the t450 touchpad is compatible with the t440s? Tell me it has real buttons and doesn't tilt the pad to click!
    - elipsey 7y ago
      Most indeededly!
- m4rtink 7y ago
  The 520/420 is also easily upgradeable - in my T520 running Fedora, I have: - switched the i5 CPU for i7-2860QM, doupling thread count while mostly keeping per thread performance - maxed RAM to 16 GB - put in SATA3 SSD to the 3.5 inch position - put in a high capacity 3.5 inch spinning hard drive to ultrabay instead of DVD drive - put in a small m2 SSD to the SATA2 m2 slot because why not This is still my main computer, driving two full HD monitors from its docking station.
  - chx 7y ago
    - you mean a SATA3 SSD to the 2.5 position - a high capacity 2.5 inch spinning hard drive in the ultrabay - an mSATA SSD in the mPCIe slot it's not m.2 I had a similar setup in my T420/T420s (I moved to the T420s when the first full HD boards didn't work well for the T420 and then came the sudden thaw in the keyboard winter, the ThinkPad 25).
- bitL 7y ago
  W520 was the best old ThinkPad - still old-school keyboard, Full HD, 32GB RAM, 2x HDD/SSD.
- vuln 7y ago
  I love my x220 i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB Samgung EVO Pro... The thing flys..
- silon42 7y ago
  I find T480 quite decent, compared to alternatives at least (Dell XPS, MacBook Pro)
  - chx 7y ago
    I posted https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/dd2i3y/can_we_talk_for_a_moment_about_how_insane_a_value/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/dd2i3y/can_we_tal... a few weeks ago: > You can get still in warranty, good spec machines below 600 USD on eBay from reputable sellers, returns accepted. Extending the warranty for 1-2 more years is 50-100 USD. So, for all intents and purposes it's new. This machine is not worse than the T490, in fact it's better in some aspects like two memory slots and two batteries. It costs like half the T490 and just as good! Discussion mentioned Europe but eBay has a nice global shipping program so you can just buy from ebay.com but also ebay.co.uk has similar prices...
- kop316 7y ago
  Heh, I just bought an x200 for the same reason. I was able to retrofit Bluetooth, Wifi, the Hard drive to a new SSD, flash libreboot, and put in 8 GB or RAM. Debian + XFCE is amazingly fast on it Oddly enough, I am having an issue with the keyboard though. I unplugged it and when I replugged it in, keys stopped working. Repeating that process made a lot more keys stop working as well. I have a feeling that's just because the ribbon cable was old though, so I am replacing the whole thing.
blotter_paper 7y ago
Fuck chromebooks, I once had to make a jumper out of aluminum foil to replace the bootloader on one (not all are that bad, I know). If the aluminum jumper gets dislodged during the process, you brick the machine. I still recommend chromebooks for people who just need a web-browser and are okay with Google seeing all, but I'm never again buying one for myself without finding model-specific bootloader replacement instructions and making sure that they don't require a McGuyvered jumper cable.
- elipsey 7y ago
  yep, I also put coreboot on my acer c710, becuase crouton pissed me off. I don't think mine had to rely on the jumper not falling out though -- yikes.
abawany 7y ago
I have an HP x2 Chromebook. The chromeos-imposed limitations are infuriating: no on-screen keyboard access for Linux apps, no side-loaded Android apps without a wipe+dev mode, etc. However, the form factor (tablet, magnetically attached keyboard, excellent battery life, stylus, etc.) make this an acceptable trade-off for me.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Check out the Galaxy Tab S6 - it has a very nice magnetically attached keyboard acting as a decent cover. And while this is one of the devices affected by the Linux on DeX depreciation, it still has regular DeX (basically a desktop shell for Android apps) and quite a few community maintained open source Linux chroots (such as Termux or UserLand) provide decent development environments. Though there are some worrying developments recently kinda mirroring your worries due to Googles draconian security policy changes possibly making projects like this harder: https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072
mav3rick 7y ago
Chromebooks now support a Linux installation officially in the form of Crostini. It runs securely in a VM and work is done to make your linux apps and sharing as first party options in Chrome OS. Crouton was never an officially released and supported product by Chrome OS. Crostini is.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Some flagship Chromebooks do, not all of them. So if one is paying flagship prices, then why not just buy a regular laptop from a Linux vendor?
  - mav3rick 7y ago
    First of all it's not just flagship devices, here you go - https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md#Supported-Now https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/c... Also all Chromebooks produced 2019 and onwards will support Crostini. Flagship or not flagship. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/291185-all-chromebooks-will-support-linux-going-forward https://www.extremetech.com/computing/291185-all-chromebooks... Chromebooks' update model, speed and security are way ahead of any Linux vendor. Security is the pride of this product. And the hardware quality is great too. What you buy is your prerogative but the ability to run both Android apps and also a Linux install makes Chromebooks a good value.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      That just sounds like Google marketing. First of all, speed is hardly a feature when compared with laptops on the same price range. Specially when taking into consideration the VMs being executed, namely browser instances, gVisor and the Crostini hypervisor. Then just like on Android devices, Chromebooks have a limited duration of updates, namely 6 years since device market release. Hardware quality is debatable when I need to pay MacBook class prices for getting such quality.
      - mav3rick 7y ago

chx 7y ago

Note you can get (very) old ThinkPads for a pittance which will be a much better platform for running Linux. Many actually prefer the T420/X220 for its keyboard and the performance is not as bad as one would think from the eight years passed since its release. As https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/4 https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v... attests from Sandy Bridge (2011 ThinkPad) to Kaby Lake (2017 ThinkPad) IPC only grew by 20%, the big changes were in efficiency allowing the move from 35W CPUs to 15W CPUs. Also, if you are just slightly handy, you could use the T430/X230 with the old keyboard hacked onto them. If you are even more handy, you could install a converter board and a full HD screen. If you are doing this to a T430s with an i7 CPU without an nVidia GPU you even get Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt 1 for sure but still, a converter allows you to attach TB3 devices. A T430s hacked so is basically the poor man's ThinkPad 25 which is the pinnacle of laptops. (Not counting the T480-ThinkPad 25 Frankenpad which is nuts.)

elipsey 7y ago
I am typing this on $150 refurbished x230, I also have a t440s with a retrofitted IPS screen, and t450 touchpad. shhhhh..... stop telling the other hackers, they will buy them all! XD
- 0xfaded 7y ago
  My t440s screen just died :(
  - elipsey 7y ago
    /hugs. don't despair, you can get a new one for 40 bucks. that's what's so great about these things! https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440s-14-Laptop-LCD-Screen-Complete-Assembly/143418503773?epid=2294799867&hash=item216468b25d:g:8XYAAOSwjqJdrhlG https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440s-14-Laptop...
- imglorp 7y ago
  So the t450 touchpad is compatible with the t440s? Tell me it has real buttons and doesn't tilt the pad to click!
  - elipsey 7y ago
    Most indeededly!
m4rtink 7y ago
The 520/420 is also easily upgradeable - in my T520 running Fedora, I have: - switched the i5 CPU for i7-2860QM, doupling thread count while mostly keeping per thread performance - maxed RAM to 16 GB - put in SATA3 SSD to the 3.5 inch position - put in a high capacity 3.5 inch spinning hard drive to ultrabay instead of DVD drive - put in a small m2 SSD to the SATA2 m2 slot because why not This is still my main computer, driving two full HD monitors from its docking station.
- chx 7y ago
  - you mean a SATA3 SSD to the 2.5 position - a high capacity 2.5 inch spinning hard drive in the ultrabay - an mSATA SSD in the mPCIe slot it's not m.2 I had a similar setup in my T420/T420s (I moved to the T420s when the first full HD boards didn't work well for the T420 and then came the sudden thaw in the keyboard winter, the ThinkPad 25).
bitL 7y ago
W520 was the best old ThinkPad - still old-school keyboard, Full HD, 32GB RAM, 2x HDD/SSD.
vuln 7y ago
I love my x220 i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB Samgung EVO Pro... The thing flys..
silon42 7y ago
I find T480 quite decent, compared to alternatives at least (Dell XPS, MacBook Pro)
- chx 7y ago
  I posted https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/dd2i3y/can_we_talk_for_a_moment_about_how_insane_a_value/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/dd2i3y/can_we_tal... a few weeks ago: > You can get still in warranty, good spec machines below 600 USD on eBay from reputable sellers, returns accepted. Extending the warranty for 1-2 more years is 50-100 USD. So, for all intents and purposes it's new. This machine is not worse than the T490, in fact it's better in some aspects like two memory slots and two batteries. It costs like half the T490 and just as good! Discussion mentioned Europe but eBay has a nice global shipping program so you can just buy from ebay.com but also ebay.co.uk has similar prices...
kop316 7y ago
Heh, I just bought an x200 for the same reason. I was able to retrofit Bluetooth, Wifi, the Hard drive to a new SSD, flash libreboot, and put in 8 GB or RAM. Debian + XFCE is amazingly fast on it Oddly enough, I am having an issue with the keyboard though. I unplugged it and when I replugged it in, keys stopped working. Repeating that process made a lot more keys stop working as well. I have a feeling that's just because the ribbon cable was old though, so I am replacing the whole thing.

blotter_paper 7y ago

Fuck chromebooks, I once had to make a jumper out of aluminum foil to replace the bootloader on one (not all are that bad, I know). If the aluminum jumper gets dislodged during the process, you brick the machine. I still recommend chromebooks for people who just need a web-browser and are okay with Google seeing all, but I'm never again buying one for myself without finding model-specific bootloader replacement instructions and making sure that they don't require a McGuyvered jumper cable.

elipsey 7y ago
yep, I also put coreboot on my acer c710, becuase crouton pissed me off. I don't think mine had to rely on the jumper not falling out though -- yikes.

abawany 7y ago

I have an HP x2 Chromebook. The chromeos-imposed limitations are infuriating: no on-screen keyboard access for Linux apps, no side-loaded Android apps without a wipe+dev mode, etc. However, the form factor (tablet, magnetically attached keyboard, excellent battery life, stylus, etc.) make this an acceptable trade-off for me.

m4rtink 7y ago
Check out the Galaxy Tab S6 - it has a very nice magnetically attached keyboard acting as a decent cover. And while this is one of the devices affected by the Linux on DeX depreciation, it still has regular DeX (basically a desktop shell for Android apps) and quite a few community maintained open source Linux chroots (such as Termux or UserLand) provide decent development environments. Though there are some worrying developments recently kinda mirroring your worries due to Googles draconian security policy changes possibly making projects like this harder: https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072

mav3rick 7y ago

Chromebooks now support a Linux installation officially in the form of Crostini. It runs securely in a VM and work is done to make your linux apps and sharing as first party options in Chrome OS. Crouton was never an officially released and supported product by Chrome OS. Crostini is.

pjmlp 7y ago
Some flagship Chromebooks do, not all of them. So if one is paying flagship prices, then why not just buy a regular laptop from a Linux vendor?
- mav3rick 7y ago
  First of all it's not just flagship devices, here you go - https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md#Supported-Now https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/c... Also all Chromebooks produced 2019 and onwards will support Crostini. Flagship or not flagship. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/291185-all-chromebooks-will-support-linux-going-forward https://www.extremetech.com/computing/291185-all-chromebooks... Chromebooks' update model, speed and security are way ahead of any Linux vendor. Security is the pride of this product. And the hardware quality is great too. What you buy is your prerogative but the ability to run both Android apps and also a Linux install makes Chromebooks a good value.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    That just sounds like Google marketing. First of all, speed is hardly a feature when compared with laptops on the same price range. Specially when taking into consideration the VMs being executed, namely browser instances, gVisor and the Crostini hypervisor. Then just like on Android devices, Chromebooks have a limited duration of updates, namely 6 years since device market release. Hardware quality is debatable when I need to pay MacBook class prices for getting such quality.
    - mav3rick 7y ago