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These are good things to read to understand a consensus that yes, electromagnetic radiation has biological effects. For people reading this stuff, always searc
by doctorpangloss 7y ago
These are good things to read to understand a consensus that yes, electromagnetic radiation has biological effects.
For people reading this stuff, always search for something called the Odds Ratio (OR), which is a gold standard way of comparing how clinically significant a thing is. For example, smoking has an OR of 60 for lung cancer. A well covered paper on birth control suggested its OR for developing depression is 1.26, and the massive aspirin on heart health study had 0.95 OR of cardiovascular disease in one of the surveyed counties (ie aspirin improved clinical outcome).
If error bars on measured OR contain 1.0 you can’t say if it is helpful or harmful. OR accounts for baseline incidence in a way that RR (relative risk) does not. So it lets you actually choose among behaviors instead of within diseases or outcomes. It informs why it’s possible to tell everyone they shouldn’t smoke (OR is very high), keep taking birth control (because depression outcome is better than unwanted or complicated pregnancy outcomes), and aspirin for cardiovascular disease prophylaxis (very limited side effects, very cheap so even 0.95 is worth it).
I don’t know if there’s a consensus that electromagnetic radiation from electronics has clinical significance. If there is clinical significance it will be a small OR for most outcomes. It won’t be comparable at all to e.g. smoking.
However this is still an imperfect measure. In Japan OR for lung disease from smoking is 15, 4 times better than the US. The researchers speculated this has to do with a specific filter on common Japanese cigarettes but it could be genetics or other things that they didn’t control for (ie BMI and gender matching but not Japanese ancestry). So technology can have huge effects on clinical outcomes but 4x 15 is a much bigger deal than 4x 1.015. My point is that it has its limitations but OR definitely measures something real.
This is a robust framework for evaluating how this research matters to you in a way that does not require conspiracies or investigating the researcher’s backgrounds. Additionally it is widely accepted by legitimate medical practitioners across the world.
Under this framework, the reviews posted here do not document clinical significance, although individual papers cited in them might.
A big limitation is that mice are tested with orders of magnitude higher incidence rate of the disease to quickly find RR (high RR in mice vs placebo is strong research evidence just not strong clinical evidence). So mouse OR isn’t often predicative of human OR. But this applies to chart reviews too. Still a pretty durable framework.
- godelski 7y ago> A big limitation is that mice are tested with orders of magnitude higher incidence rate of the disease to quickly find RR Do people also assume that EM radiation is a linear no threshold? Because we know it isn't true for ionizing radiation, but it is a great model to use in practice because it overestimates harm (which we'd rather over estimate than under). I've read a few of those papers on the EM radiation on mice and they seem to assume a LNT model, which doesn't seem all that honest to me. A few of the papers I read didn't have great p-values either and had drastically differing rates of cancer development for radiation levels and sex (IIRC one big one had high cancer rates for low power, nothing for medium, and moderate cancer rates for high power. Which there was no explanation to this. But that might have just been one bad paper).
- aclarry 7y agoCitation for knowing it isn't true for ionizing radiation? LNT is supported by the US NRC, the EPA, and UNSCEAR. Not saying that it supports the papers on EM radiation, but it's definitely not crazy to assume LNT in your research (and given we don't know much about the effects of low radiation doses, it's definitely the more precautionary option).
- greggman2 7y agoIsn't the answer "Denver"? The city has a higher radiation dosage than average yet no more medical issues. Or at least that's something I heard once. A quick google brought up this site (which I have no idea who is sponcering) https://atomicinsights.com/science-falsified-no-safe-dose-hypothesis-radiation-now/ https://atomicinsights.com/science-falsified-no-safe-dose-hy... Also https://www.google.com/search?q=denver+radiation https://www.google.com/search?q=denver+radiation
- godelski 7y agoYes, and an even better example is Ramsar Iran.
- godelski 7y ago