4 ms·

"Like it or not, the closed ecosystem of iOS provides more value to end users" Is there any "official" proof for this statement? To me closed ecosystem of iOs

by FpUser 7y ago

"Like it or not, the closed ecosystem of iOS provides more value to end users" Is there any "official" proof for this statement? To me closed ecosystem of iOs (and semi closed Android for that matter) look truly pathetic comparatively to what I have on Windows/Linux desktop

m4rtink 7y ago
There SELinux change & its impact on Termux is discussed in quite a detail here: https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072
- FpUser 7y ago
  Huh? What does that have to do with this? I was countering the point about closed system "being better" for users. Not the technical merits of control
- rstuart4133 7y ago
  That is an interesting discussion. Summary: the conundrum Google finds themselves in is they want all code run by the user in plain sight: signed by the developer and inspectable by their anti malware tools. It's not difficult to see why they want this. The stand out counter example is Browsers downloading and running javascript, which is unseen by them, unsigned and worst of all for them utterly impossible to prevent entirely. So in Termux's case it's always going to be near impossible to block interpreted languages like python from running. The interesting special case is what they called mmap(PROT_EXEC), possibly better called mmap(PROT_EXEC|PROT_WRITE). In other words, the ability to write and execute create code on the fly. JIT's can't work well without it, so without it Javascript is always going to run like a dog. But with it is is always possible to load an ELF binary yourself in user space, bypassing the kernel entirely. Termux could always replace the libc exec() with something that did it that way. So it looks to me like this is all just re-arranging the deck chairs. Ultimately Google can't use technical measures to prevent any malicious app from running any code they damned well please. Their attempts to accomplish the impossible won't help the malware problem, but does make like difficult for innocent apps like termux. As others have said this have said, this has nothing to do with Samsung killing Linux on Dex. Unlike Termux, they have to power to turn it all off.
Klonoar 7y ago
Your ability to tweak, customize and rice your setup is not what standard users want. They want it to just work and be secure. iOS has this figured out hands down.
- FpUser 7y ago
  "They want it to just work and be secure". - Says you, not "they". "Them" standard users do not even know what secure is. As for "just work" - nothing "just works" in the software business. It is snake oil
  - Klonoar 7y ago
    You've somehow managed to be even more dismissive than my own earlier comment. It's not a healthy way to view this industry.
    - FpUser 7y ago
      "Not healthy way" - this is interesting. I think that the industry is in a business of making money. They do not give rat's a$$ about what is best for customer. What they do instead is they try to "educate" said customer to swallow their hook, line and sinker. Apple is very successful in this business.

by FpUser 7y ago

m4rtink 7y ago

There SELinux change & its impact on Termux is discussed in quite a detail here: https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072

FpUser 7y ago
Huh? What does that have to do with this? I was countering the point about closed system "being better" for users. Not the technical merits of control
rstuart4133 7y ago
That is an interesting discussion. Summary: the conundrum Google finds themselves in is they want all code run by the user in plain sight: signed by the developer and inspectable by their anti malware tools. It's not difficult to see why they want this. The stand out counter example is Browsers downloading and running javascript, which is unseen by them, unsigned and worst of all for them utterly impossible to prevent entirely. So in Termux's case it's always going to be near impossible to block interpreted languages like python from running. The interesting special case is what they called mmap(PROT_EXEC), possibly better called mmap(PROT_EXEC|PROT_WRITE). In other words, the ability to write and execute create code on the fly. JIT's can't work well without it, so without it Javascript is always going to run like a dog. But with it is is always possible to load an ELF binary yourself in user space, bypassing the kernel entirely. Termux could always replace the libc exec() with something that did it that way. So it looks to me like this is all just re-arranging the deck chairs. Ultimately Google can't use technical measures to prevent any malicious app from running any code they damned well please. Their attempts to accomplish the impossible won't help the malware problem, but does make like difficult for innocent apps like termux. As others have said this have said, this has nothing to do with Samsung killing Linux on Dex. Unlike Termux, they have to power to turn it all off.

Klonoar 7y ago

Your ability to tweak, customize and rice your setup is not what standard users want. They want it to just work and be secure. iOS has this figured out hands down.

FpUser 7y ago
"They want it to just work and be secure". - Says you, not "they". "Them" standard users do not even know what secure is. As for "just work" - nothing "just works" in the software business. It is snake oil
- Klonoar 7y ago
  You've somehow managed to be even more dismissive than my own earlier comment. It's not a healthy way to view this industry.
  - FpUser 7y ago
    "Not healthy way" - this is interesting. I think that the industry is in a business of making money. They do not give rat's a$$ about what is best for customer. What they do instead is they try to "educate" said customer to swallow their hook, line and sinker. Apple is very successful in this business.