7 ms·

That's a good idea ;-P I've been working on it but it's only for our internal use at this time. Chinese names are also required in some counties in California.

That's a good idea ;-P I've been working on it but it's only for our internal use at this time. Chinese names are also required in some counties in California. I shared the following in our blog: The California State Legislature passed a bill this year (and it was approved by the Governor on July 12) that requires phonetic transliterations of candidates’ alphabet-based names to appear on ballots and ballot materials in jurisdiction required to translate ballot materials into character-based languages. https://service.goodcharacters.com/daily/20190701-ab-57-candidates.html https://service.goodcharacters.com/daily/20190701-ab-57-cand...

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> requires phonetic transliterations of candidates’ alphabet-based names to appear on ballots and ballot materials in jurisdiction required to translate ballot materials into character-based languages In my experience, Chinese versions of foreign words, including foreign names, usually don't approach the sound of the original as closely as Chinese phonology allows. That is, they aren't really meant as "phonetic transliterations"; there are other options available purely within Chinese that would approximate the original sound more closely.[1] Instead, the goal seems to be that you're in the right ballpark on the sound, and then you tweak the name for other factors such as character semantics while staying somewhere in the ballpark. And of course, once a name is conventionalized, you'd want to use that rather than innovating a new version. [1] Of course it's possible in general that while my foreign ears think a different Chinese syllable would better match the foreign one, the Chinese disagree and really believe they are using the closest available match. There are plenty of ready examples, such as Coca-Cola, where this is obviously not the case.
- goodcharacters 7y ago
  I recommend authors and public figures to decide on their own official Chinese names. Unless a well-known person declares his or her Chinese name, Chinese reporters have to make one up or see how others transliterate it. The Chinese language is full of homophones; thus, there are literally thousands of ways an alphabetical name can be converted into Chinese. Unlike most other languages, Chinese has no standard way to translate names. There is no one central authority in regard to Chinese names. Reporters in China, Hong Kong, or Taiwan — each of these regions is its own trademark jurisdiction — often have their own ideas. This results in multiple Chinese names for the same person, each with its own meanings and connotations that often are not the best.
- iguy 7y ago
  I presume most new translations now target Mandarin, but I wonder whether some older western imports got their names in Cantonese, is this a thing? And likewise for candidate names -- IIRC lots of people moved to BC from HK, but perhaps a minority by now?
  - goodcharacters 7y ago
    Mandarin and Cantonese, two of several Chinese dialects, share the same Chinese writing system based on Chinese characters. But the same character is pronounced differently depending on the dialect. So a name can be transliterated in "Cantonese way" or "Mandarin way," yes.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > I wonder whether some older western imports got their names in Cantonese, is this a thing? Yes, it is the norm for older loanwords. Compare Mandarin jia-na-da [Canada] from Cantonese ga-la-da, or Mandarin mo-xi-ge [Mexico] from Cantonese mak-sai-go. EDIT: it's worth observing that the Chinese themselves are generally not aware that the older loanwords came through Cantonese.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      This also applies in the opposite direction for English loanwords of Chinese origin, which are often Cantonese. E.g. bok choy is from 白菜 (white vegetable), which is pronounced baak6 coi3 in Cantonese (Jyutping romanization) but báicài in Mandarin (Pinyin romanization). Note that Mandarin has lost the final -k of the first syllable, which is retained in the loan.
    - gfaure 7y ago
      The Cantonese for "Canada" is gaa1 naa4 daai6 in Jyutping transcription (your transcription of "Mexico" is fine though).
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        I based the Canada on oral communication and the Mexico on textual communication. I've never studied Cantonese. It feels safe to say the second syllable beginning with N in Mandarin was just good luck though. I might have swapped out the N for L anyway if I had known the Jyutping. An example of a distinction that would have come through fine English -> Mandarin being lost by apparent transmission through Cantonese exists in Los Angeles, 洛杉矶. The Mandarin is luo-shan-ji, which annoys me every time I need to understand or produce the name. Mandarin has no problem distinguishing s from sh.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> requires phonetic transliterations of candidates’ alphabet-based names to appear on ballots and ballot materials in jurisdiction required to translate ballot materials into character-based languages In my experience, Chinese versions of foreign words, including foreign names, usually don't approach the sound of the original as closely as Chinese phonology allows. That is, they aren't really meant as "phonetic transliterations"; there are other options available purely within Chinese that would approximate the original sound more closely.[1] Instead, the goal seems to be that you're in the right ballpark on the sound, and then you tweak the name for other factors such as character semantics while staying somewhere in the ballpark. And of course, once a name is conventionalized, you'd want to use that rather than innovating a new version. [1] Of course it's possible in general that while my foreign ears think a different Chinese syllable would better match the foreign one, the Chinese disagree and really believe they are using the closest available match. There are plenty of ready examples, such as Coca-Cola, where this is obviously not the case.

goodcharacters 7y ago
I recommend authors and public figures to decide on their own official Chinese names. Unless a well-known person declares his or her Chinese name, Chinese reporters have to make one up or see how others transliterate it. The Chinese language is full of homophones; thus, there are literally thousands of ways an alphabetical name can be converted into Chinese. Unlike most other languages, Chinese has no standard way to translate names. There is no one central authority in regard to Chinese names. Reporters in China, Hong Kong, or Taiwan — each of these regions is its own trademark jurisdiction — often have their own ideas. This results in multiple Chinese names for the same person, each with its own meanings and connotations that often are not the best.
iguy 7y ago
I presume most new translations now target Mandarin, but I wonder whether some older western imports got their names in Cantonese, is this a thing? And likewise for candidate names -- IIRC lots of people moved to BC from HK, but perhaps a minority by now?
- goodcharacters 7y ago
  Mandarin and Cantonese, two of several Chinese dialects, share the same Chinese writing system based on Chinese characters. But the same character is pronounced differently depending on the dialect. So a name can be transliterated in "Cantonese way" or "Mandarin way," yes.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > I wonder whether some older western imports got their names in Cantonese, is this a thing? Yes, it is the norm for older loanwords. Compare Mandarin jia-na-da [Canada] from Cantonese ga-la-da, or Mandarin mo-xi-ge [Mexico] from Cantonese mak-sai-go. EDIT: it's worth observing that the Chinese themselves are generally not aware that the older loanwords came through Cantonese.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    This also applies in the opposite direction for English loanwords of Chinese origin, which are often Cantonese. E.g. bok choy is from 白菜 (white vegetable), which is pronounced baak6 coi3 in Cantonese (Jyutping romanization) but báicài in Mandarin (Pinyin romanization). Note that Mandarin has lost the final -k of the first syllable, which is retained in the loan.
  - gfaure 7y ago
    The Cantonese for "Canada" is gaa1 naa4 daai6 in Jyutping transcription (your transcription of "Mexico" is fine though).
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      I based the Canada on oral communication and the Mexico on textual communication. I've never studied Cantonese. It feels safe to say the second syllable beginning with N in Mandarin was just good luck though. I might have swapped out the N for L anyway if I had known the Jyutping. An example of a distinction that would have come through fine English -> Mandarin being lost by apparent transmission through Cantonese exists in Los Angeles, 洛杉矶. The Mandarin is luo-shan-ji, which annoys me every time I need to understand or produce the name. Mandarin has no problem distinguishing s from sh.