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I understand I will be downvoted for this, but don't you think you should tip more? I don't know where you live, but I do know in the US drivers depend on tip i

I understand I will be downvoted for this, but don't you think you should tip more? I don't know where you live, but I do know in the US drivers depend on tip income and when you don't tip sufficiently it really hurts them.

fosk 7y ago
If their current job is unprofitable to a point that they rely on charity (aka “tips”) then they are probably in the wrong business or they should demand to be paid more by their employer.
- untog 7y ago
  Tipping isn't charity, though. There is literally a legal loophole that lets employers pay less than minimum wage on the basis that the employee will receive enough in tips to make up the difference. Don't get me wrong, I hate tipping too. But it's disingenuous to describe it as charity when our legal system has made it legal to deprive workers of a wage because of an assumption that people will tip. So we should. And should support all efforts to remove the absurd loophole from the law.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Paying less than minimum wage and relying on tips doesn’t apply to Lyft drivers. And in addition, most employers need to pay minimum wage if the tips don’t bring it up to that.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      > And in addition, most employers need to pay minimum wage if the tips don’t bring it up to that. Exactly. Such laws means that for low-paying workers, tipping is a gift to the employer, not to the worker.
  - ping_pong 7y ago
    Tipping is 100% charity. In today's environment of 3% unemployment, if someone doesn't like their job, they can find another one pretty quickly. If they don't like the fact that restaurants can pay them less than minimum wage, they should find a new job.
    - untog 7y ago
      > In today's environment of 3% unemployment, if someone doesn't like their job, they can find another one pretty quickly. Have you ever talked to a real person about that theory? Do you really think that a nationwide unemployment level applies equally to people in all parts of the country, with all levels of education? Do you really, really think that people dissatisfied with their jobs just need to be less lazy and apply for more jobs? How many people do you actually know in this situation?
      - umeshunni 7y ago
        The highest unemployment rate in the country is in Alaska (6%) and for people with less than a high school education it's 5.6%. Not 3% but still the lowest it's ever been and lower than the average is in EU countries (6.2%).
        ssully 7y ago
        The person you are replying to isn't saying anything about the actual rate of unemployment, but more that while the rate may be low, the actual number of quality jobs that pay well/treat people well isn't reflected in that percentage.
    - vkou 7y ago
      Then why, in a 3% unemployment economy, if you think that employees have so much power, why are there so many jobs paying minimal wage (Or less)? Why hasn't there been more upward pressure on wages? Do you think people for some strange reason absolutely love these minimal wage jobs, and just stick to them, despite the pay? Or maybe, could you consider that minimal wage workers don't have as much economic power as you think they do... (Do you have any friends making minimal wage?)
  - pkaye 7y ago
    In some states tipping is on top of minimum wage.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      In LA and SF, tipping is on top of minimum wage for waitstaff and many other tipped workers. I stopped tipping around the time the tipped minimum wage became the standard minimum wage.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    >There is literally a legal loophole that lets employers pay less than minimum wage on the basis that the employee will receive enough in tips to make up the difference I thought Uber and Lyft drivers weren't employees? Even if they were, that "legal loophole" isn't a federal thing, it only exists in certain states. Where I live, the minimum wage for tipped and untipped employees is the same. I still tip, but if I tip less than 20% I know that the workers are still making a floor of $15/hour.
- marzell 7y ago
  People are taxed for getting a certain amount of tips - they pay those taxes whether they actually get tips or not. And employers have a lower minimum wage for those employees.
  - zten 7y ago
    This doesn't apply for contractors, does it? Additionally, it's still illegal for an employer to let you end up below federal minimum wage, tipped or not. But shady places are happy to steal from their employees.
SamReidHughes 7y ago
I had an Uber driver, who I know outside of Uber, tell me 95% of passengers don't tip. I don't know how accurate that is.
- rightbyte 7y ago
  If I remember correctly Uber made a thing of "You don't need to tip!" in the start, right?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    I don't think the app even supported tips until a year or two ago. Part of their shtick was that you don't need to mess with cash, and the price in the app is all you need to pay.
- ProfessorLayton 7y ago
  afaik Uber/Lyft don't tell drivers if a single passenger leaves a tip, they only see an aggregate on their pay stubs. If they did then passenger ratings would become pretty useless.
- taude 7y ago
  Saw this, relevant to the most people don't tip: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/21/20925109/uber-tipping-riders-drivers-percentage-gender-nber-study https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/21/20925109/uber-tipping-ri...
- dnautics 7y ago
  The tipping rate for me as a lyft driver (male, east asian, mid 30s) was around 20%, 4-5 years ago.
gherkinnn 7y ago
And here is the age-old response to that: by tipping you support that system. I have no dog in this fight, and know too little to have a valid response. I just find that tips being necessary for the waiter/driver to survive a strange concept. Not being able to count on a fixed income has to be tough. Speaking of dogs, it’s time to rewatch Reservoir Dogs.
- fosk 7y ago
  Every waiter I know says that they need tips to survive in order to justify asking for tips. Those same people also fight with tooth and nails any argument that perhaps we can abolish tips and give them a living wage. Real truth: most likely than not, they are making a killing with tips, much more than they would make with a fair salary. Especially considering that the employer is obliged to pay them minimum wage anyways if they don’t receive enough tips. The myth of the waiter not meeting ends is hard to believe when a decent waiter can pull in $200-500 (minimum) per night in a decent restaurant.
  - fredophile 7y ago
    Where do you live and what type of restaurant are they working in? A waiter at a trendy restaurant in a large city will make far more in tips than someone working in a diner in a small town. There are plenty of waitstaff who work hard and still have trouble making ends meet.
    - EpicEng 7y ago
      I worked in a Chili's in Encinitas CA about 13 years ago. I walked with $100-$150 / night in tips alone. A friend of mine made about the same at a Chili's in machesney park IL. Pretty good pay for part time work at a Chili's. It's not only waiters at posch spots that make relatively great money waiting tables. No one I knew would have traded their tip money for $15 an hour.
rinchik 7y ago
Tipping also supports tipping culture. Tipping should be abolished in favor of decent living wages which can not be done if you will guilt trip people who oppose tipping. Also why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones..
- tedivm 7y ago
  This logic is all well in good if people are actually pushing for that living wage. In reality though it seems like a lot of people who don't tip are just being cheap and are are taking advantage of the fact that part of these people's pay comes from tips and are using that to basically get cheaper labor. People who refuse to tip out of "principle" but also refuse to do anything to change the existing situation are just as guilty of exploiting workers as the employees who rely on tips are.
  - mattlong 7y ago
    For what it's worth, the second paragraph (about refusing to tip for jobs they are capable of performing) in the comment you replied to is a direct quote of Dwight Schrute's character from the US version of the the TV show The Office.
  - maximente 7y ago
    oh do come on. as a society we have come to the conclusion that the value of an hour of labor is worth something. now greedy corps are skirting around the rules (restaurants and now ride sharing) and somehow a few greedy individuals are the problem. stop demonizing the individual here - it's the companies that are skirting around the well established law. individuals are not capable of raking these businesses over the coals; that's what the government is, honestly, explicitly supposed to do.
sokoloff 7y ago
I generally tip 15-20% (and used to tip cash before the apps added tipping in-app). If a driver bothers or harasses me about a tip, I'll be happy to make an exception for that particular driver.

fosk 7y ago

If their current job is unprofitable to a point that they rely on charity (aka “tips”) then they are probably in the wrong business or they should demand to be paid more by their employer.

untog 7y ago
Tipping isn't charity, though. There is literally a legal loophole that lets employers pay less than minimum wage on the basis that the employee will receive enough in tips to make up the difference. Don't get me wrong, I hate tipping too. But it's disingenuous to describe it as charity when our legal system has made it legal to deprive workers of a wage because of an assumption that people will tip. So we should. And should support all efforts to remove the absurd loophole from the law.
- refurb 7y ago
  Paying less than minimum wage and relying on tips doesn’t apply to Lyft drivers. And in addition, most employers need to pay minimum wage if the tips don’t bring it up to that.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    > And in addition, most employers need to pay minimum wage if the tips don’t bring it up to that. Exactly. Such laws means that for low-paying workers, tipping is a gift to the employer, not to the worker.
- ping_pong 7y ago
  Tipping is 100% charity. In today's environment of 3% unemployment, if someone doesn't like their job, they can find another one pretty quickly. If they don't like the fact that restaurants can pay them less than minimum wage, they should find a new job.
  - untog 7y ago
    > In today's environment of 3% unemployment, if someone doesn't like their job, they can find another one pretty quickly. Have you ever talked to a real person about that theory? Do you really think that a nationwide unemployment level applies equally to people in all parts of the country, with all levels of education? Do you really, really think that people dissatisfied with their jobs just need to be less lazy and apply for more jobs? How many people do you actually know in this situation?
    - umeshunni 7y ago
      The highest unemployment rate in the country is in Alaska (6%) and for people with less than a high school education it's 5.6%. Not 3% but still the lowest it's ever been and lower than the average is in EU countries (6.2%).
      - ssully 7y ago
        The person you are replying to isn't saying anything about the actual rate of unemployment, but more that while the rate may be low, the actual number of quality jobs that pay well/treat people well isn't reflected in that percentage.
  - vkou 7y ago
    Then why, in a 3% unemployment economy, if you think that employees have so much power, why are there so many jobs paying minimal wage (Or less)? Why hasn't there been more upward pressure on wages? Do you think people for some strange reason absolutely love these minimal wage jobs, and just stick to them, despite the pay? Or maybe, could you consider that minimal wage workers don't have as much economic power as you think they do... (Do you have any friends making minimal wage?)
- pkaye 7y ago
  In some states tipping is on top of minimum wage.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    In LA and SF, tipping is on top of minimum wage for waitstaff and many other tipped workers. I stopped tipping around the time the tipped minimum wage became the standard minimum wage.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  >There is literally a legal loophole that lets employers pay less than minimum wage on the basis that the employee will receive enough in tips to make up the difference I thought Uber and Lyft drivers weren't employees? Even if they were, that "legal loophole" isn't a federal thing, it only exists in certain states. Where I live, the minimum wage for tipped and untipped employees is the same. I still tip, but if I tip less than 20% I know that the workers are still making a floor of $15/hour.
marzell 7y ago
People are taxed for getting a certain amount of tips - they pay those taxes whether they actually get tips or not. And employers have a lower minimum wage for those employees.
- zten 7y ago
  This doesn't apply for contractors, does it? Additionally, it's still illegal for an employer to let you end up below federal minimum wage, tipped or not. But shady places are happy to steal from their employees.

SamReidHughes 7y ago

I had an Uber driver, who I know outside of Uber, tell me 95% of passengers don't tip. I don't know how accurate that is.

rightbyte 7y ago
If I remember correctly Uber made a thing of "You don't need to tip!" in the start, right?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  I don't think the app even supported tips until a year or two ago. Part of their shtick was that you don't need to mess with cash, and the price in the app is all you need to pay.
ProfessorLayton 7y ago
afaik Uber/Lyft don't tell drivers if a single passenger leaves a tip, they only see an aggregate on their pay stubs. If they did then passenger ratings would become pretty useless.
taude 7y ago
Saw this, relevant to the most people don't tip: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/21/20925109/uber-tipping-riders-drivers-percentage-gender-nber-study https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/21/20925109/uber-tipping-ri...
dnautics 7y ago
The tipping rate for me as a lyft driver (male, east asian, mid 30s) was around 20%, 4-5 years ago.

gherkinnn 7y ago

And here is the age-old response to that: by tipping you support that system. I have no dog in this fight, and know too little to have a valid response. I just find that tips being necessary for the waiter/driver to survive a strange concept. Not being able to count on a fixed income has to be tough. Speaking of dogs, it’s time to rewatch Reservoir Dogs.

fosk 7y ago
Every waiter I know says that they need tips to survive in order to justify asking for tips. Those same people also fight with tooth and nails any argument that perhaps we can abolish tips and give them a living wage. Real truth: most likely than not, they are making a killing with tips, much more than they would make with a fair salary. Especially considering that the employer is obliged to pay them minimum wage anyways if they don’t receive enough tips. The myth of the waiter not meeting ends is hard to believe when a decent waiter can pull in $200-500 (minimum) per night in a decent restaurant.
- fredophile 7y ago
  Where do you live and what type of restaurant are they working in? A waiter at a trendy restaurant in a large city will make far more in tips than someone working in a diner in a small town. There are plenty of waitstaff who work hard and still have trouble making ends meet.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    I worked in a Chili's in Encinitas CA about 13 years ago. I walked with $100-$150 / night in tips alone. A friend of mine made about the same at a Chili's in machesney park IL. Pretty good pay for part time work at a Chili's. It's not only waiters at posch spots that make relatively great money waiting tables. No one I knew would have traded their tip money for $15 an hour.

rinchik 7y ago

Tipping also supports tipping culture. Tipping should be abolished in favor of decent living wages which can not be done if you will guilt trip people who oppose tipping. Also why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones..

tedivm 7y ago
This logic is all well in good if people are actually pushing for that living wage. In reality though it seems like a lot of people who don't tip are just being cheap and are are taking advantage of the fact that part of these people's pay comes from tips and are using that to basically get cheaper labor. People who refuse to tip out of "principle" but also refuse to do anything to change the existing situation are just as guilty of exploiting workers as the employees who rely on tips are.
- mattlong 7y ago
  For what it's worth, the second paragraph (about refusing to tip for jobs they are capable of performing) in the comment you replied to is a direct quote of Dwight Schrute's character from the US version of the the TV show The Office.
- maximente 7y ago
  oh do come on. as a society we have come to the conclusion that the value of an hour of labor is worth something. now greedy corps are skirting around the rules (restaurants and now ride sharing) and somehow a few greedy individuals are the problem. stop demonizing the individual here - it's the companies that are skirting around the well established law. individuals are not capable of raking these businesses over the coals; that's what the government is, honestly, explicitly supposed to do.

sokoloff 7y ago

I generally tip 15-20% (and used to tip cash before the apps added tipping in-app). If a driver bothers or harasses me about a tip, I'll be happy to make an exception for that particular driver.