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>It’s also a framing that is, appropriately enough, uniquely American; in the United States, the first three estates are commonly thought to be the three branch

by juped 7y ago

>It’s also a framing that is, appropriately enough, uniquely American; in the United States, the first three estates are commonly thought to be the three branches of government: the executive, legislative, and judicial. The author of this article may have misunderstood it this way but I guarantee that this is not commonly thought in the United States.

dredmorbius 7y ago
In the US, the press is occasionally referred to as the fourth branch of government (after the legislative, executive, and judiciary). Occasionally others are proposed: lobbyists, special interests, the intelligence services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government
- juped 7y ago
  That's a different term used to mean entirely different things.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    My point is that Ben Thompson seems to have confused the terms "fourth branch" and "fourth estate" in his essay. Which is not among his better ones. The usage of "branches of government", the three Constitutional ones (leg, exec, judicial), and various others generally posited as a fourth, or occasionally higher, branch. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government I'm entirely unfamiliar with a notion of estates in the US independent of Continental or British traditions. That seems to be a novel creation, or mis-remembering, of Thompson. DDG finds nothing aside from the European usage under fourth/fifth estate, specific to the US: https://duckduckgo.com/?q="united+states"+"fourth+estate"&ia=about https://duckduckgo.com/?q="united+states"+"fourth+estate"&ia...
    - juped 7y ago
      Estates are real and they aren't branches of government - more like divisions of society. I agree regarding the confusion in the essay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_of_the_realm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_of_the_realm

by juped 7y ago

dredmorbius 7y ago

In the US, the press is occasionally referred to as the fourth branch of government (after the legislative, executive, and judiciary). Occasionally others are proposed: lobbyists, special interests, the intelligence services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government

juped 7y ago
That's a different term used to mean entirely different things.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  My point is that Ben Thompson seems to have confused the terms "fourth branch" and "fourth estate" in his essay. Which is not among his better ones. The usage of "branches of government", the three Constitutional ones (leg, exec, judicial), and various others generally posited as a fourth, or occasionally higher, branch. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government I'm entirely unfamiliar with a notion of estates in the US independent of Continental or British traditions. That seems to be a novel creation, or mis-remembering, of Thompson. DDG finds nothing aside from the European usage under fourth/fifth estate, specific to the US: https://duckduckgo.com/?q="united+states"+"fourth+estate"&ia=about https://duckduckgo.com/?q="united+states"+"fourth+estate"&ia...
  - juped 7y ago
    Estates are real and they aren't branches of government - more like divisions of society. I agree regarding the confusion in the essay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_of_the_realm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_of_the_realm