3 ms·

> That layoff was the best thing to happen to me. Shook me out of my cosy job, forced me into building my own consultancy, and taught me the power of solidarity

> That layoff was the best thing to happen to me. Shook me out of my cosy job, forced me into building my own consultancy, and taught me the power of solidarity. This last part sounds like an argument against unions. One wonders, had the commenter worked in an environment where layoffs/firings aren't worth it due to externalities (and therefore never really happen), whether they'd rethink.

kick 7y ago
That last part sounds like an argument for. If not for the benefits he got from the union, the very last claim wouldn't have happened, and the second to last claim might not have been possible.
moate 7y ago
Just trying to understand: you think that somehow unions make it EASIER to layoff/fire someone? That management would somehow assume it's easier/less costly to fire people when they know those people will have a lawyer review the terms of their termination? That management would be less inclined to attempt including illegal non-competes?
- kodablah 7y ago
  No, sorry, I was too succinct. I am saying externalities like unions make it HARDER. Therefore the commenter might never have been laid off in a heavily unionized employment situation. Not arguing explicitly for or against, just mentioning that in situations where it is difficult to layoff/fire employees, it is not always a good thing (peer complacency, bloat, etc). Those that have worked in those situations often wish the protections were fewer, which is why I wondered if the commenter would rethink.
  - moate 7y ago
    He worked for a company with a union, and was still fired. I still don't understand your point here. Yes, he says the layoff had benefits, but that seemed more like a "silver lining" than a "I'm glad things happened this way". IDK, I'm either reading his statement or yours in a way someone isn't intending. Also, people who work in non-union jobs often feel that peer complacency and bloat are problems. That's not unique to union shops. Everyone has had a job where there was "that guy" that nobody understood how he kept his job. IDK why people thing unions magically create this problem, or make it worse. Mostly because I haven't seen any studies proving it, it's just a "feeling" people have.

kick 7y ago

That last part sounds like an argument for. If not for the benefits he got from the union, the very last claim wouldn't have happened, and the second to last claim might not have been possible.

moate 7y ago

Just trying to understand: you think that somehow unions make it EASIER to layoff/fire someone? That management would somehow assume it's easier/less costly to fire people when they know those people will have a lawyer review the terms of their termination? That management would be less inclined to attempt including illegal non-competes?

kodablah 7y ago
No, sorry, I was too succinct. I am saying externalities like unions make it HARDER. Therefore the commenter might never have been laid off in a heavily unionized employment situation. Not arguing explicitly for or against, just mentioning that in situations where it is difficult to layoff/fire employees, it is not always a good thing (peer complacency, bloat, etc). Those that have worked in those situations often wish the protections were fewer, which is why I wondered if the commenter would rethink.
- moate 7y ago
  He worked for a company with a union, and was still fired. I still don't understand your point here. Yes, he says the layoff had benefits, but that seemed more like a "silver lining" than a "I'm glad things happened this way". IDK, I'm either reading his statement or yours in a way someone isn't intending. Also, people who work in non-union jobs often feel that peer complacency and bloat are problems. That's not unique to union shops. Everyone has had a job where there was "that guy" that nobody understood how he kept his job. IDK why people thing unions magically create this problem, or make it worse. Mostly because I haven't seen any studies proving it, it's just a "feeling" people have.