14 ms·

Samsung Kills 'Linux on DeX' with Android 10 Rollout

159 points by dsego 7y ago

MartijnBraam 7y ago
Luckily there's still postmarketOS what accomplishes the same thing by replacing android on android phones with an Alpine Linux install.
- kick 7y ago
  It doesn't achieve the same thing. Linux on DeX had full driver support because it was running on top of Android. postmarketOS has to play catch up.
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    driver support for what hardware on the device specifically? Is it not open-source? aka can it not be backported?
    - kick 7y ago
      Linux on DeX didn't have to worry about drivers at all, because it was running in a container on an Android system. Like how your USB mouse will work on an operating system that only has PS/2 support in a virtual machine.
    - bri3d 7y ago
      Android's driver APIs and userland implementation are nonstandard. They have their own libc (bionic) and their own linker. Vendors supply binary blobs for many drivers (RIL, graphics, etc.). These drivers need a series of compatibility shims to work with "normal Linux," on both sides of the driver API. The Kernel <-> Driver interface needs to be backported to Android's non-mainline HAL, usually using Halium. The driver <-> userspace API needs to be implemented, for example by xf86-video-hwcomposer or libhybris-libwayland-egl. Finally, the blob needs a libc shim to work with normal libc (libhybris itself). https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Hybris https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Hybris
      - MartijnBraam 7y ago
        I like to point out that most devices don't use hybris on postmarketOS
        MuffinFlavored 7y ago
        and instead have native support?
- jeroenhd 7y ago
  Until pmOS can make a call, it doesn't. I love the postmarketOS initiative but right now it's very much a bare-bones project. The installation process is troublesome, hardware support is very limited and desktop environments work partially if at all. Phosh development is looking good but it's certainly not finished. As of now, I would certainly not advertise it as a Dex replacement.
- Jonnax 7y ago
  The same thing? I did some reading and it looks like the devices it runs on are ancient. Linux on Dex ran on a Note 9 which has either 6 or 8gb of RAM. With HDMI output it's possible to run visual studio code and it's very usable. Even possible to run a Dev server. And whilst I'm doing this using a monitor, keyboard and mouse, Android is still available on the device and I can use Spotify, send text messages and make phone calls. Postmarket OS looks like at best a dual boot setup, running on ancient hardware and very alpha.
Jonnax 7y ago
This actually is/was really good. On my note 9 I can open a shell. Or with HDMI get a Ubuntu desktop. Any ideas what Google changed in Android 10 to break compatibility?
- scumbert 7y ago
  > Any ideas what Google changed in Android 10 to break compatibility? Samsung's desire to continue developing the feature
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Most likely Samsung got tired to keep their fork, as regular Android doesn't expose Linux in such way that DeX is possible. For regular Android, the fact that Linux is being used is mostly transparent for userspace.
- bitwize 7y ago
  Could have to do with the fact that Google implemented new SELinux policies preventing the running of binaries from an app's data directory. Any binaries you run on Android 10 or later must be bundled in the apk and are read only on the device. I think Termux uses proot to get around this, so it still works (for now). If this is indeed the reason, Samsung probably just said "fuck this shit". Expect Google to push out a Fuchsia-based Android whose kernel won't allow the proot hack sometime in the next few years. Like it or not, the closed ecosystem of iOS provides more value to end users, and Google wants to bring those benefits to Android.
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    > Could have to do with the fact that Google implemented new SELinux policies preventing the running of binaries from an app's data directory. Any binaries you run on Android 10 or later must be bundled in the apk and are read only on the device. Does this mean the title should read something like "Due to Android 10 update, Linux on DeX will now require a jailbreak whereas it did not before"?
    - 7y ago
nunodonato 7y ago
I was going to get a Samsung tab s4 because of DeX. Oh well, glad I waited...
- panpanna 7y ago
  Note that Linux on dex was an experiment that never made it out of beta. dex itself will continue to live on.
  - nunodonato 7y ago
    dex has no particular interest, considering Android will have its own desktop mode. It was linux that interested me
- asciimo 7y ago
  Yeah, I was looking at the Note 10 for Linux on DeX. I first saw it at a Samsung developer conference and it made me consider Samsung a progressive company. Not sure I would use it regularly, but it would have been really fun to play with.
smitty1e 7y ago
Does this mean the Dex gadget itself is completely gone, or just 'Linux on Dex'?
- vetinari 7y ago
  Only linux on dex, dex itself will continue.
- MikusR 7y ago
  The gadget part has not been needed for at least a year.
xd1936 7y ago
Another article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295874
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
Linux containers on Android devices have a long history of failure. I wonder if there's a technical reason why they keep going under, or if it's strictly a lack of interest from end-users who want a Linux desktop environment on their phones.
- bhouston 7y ago
  No GPU acceleration was a big issue when I tried it.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Just a bunch of geeks want such environments, and it keeps getting proven by market failures that while they are vocal about it, few put their money into the devices when the opportunity arises. A vicious cycle since OpenMoko. Android is really a Java like based OS, with a native SDK for games, real time audio and integrating native libraries. Those that want CLI and interactive dev environments on the go have plenty of options written in Java.
fractalf 7y ago
Purism to the rescue! Https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ ..at least it's a start. Hopefully linux (FOSS) on mobile will eventually break through, it's sucks bigtime being dependent on a device from apple/google
- m4rtink 7y ago
  A decent regular Linux distro running tablet with a Wacom digitizer (precise pen with pressure and tilt support) would be really nice with all the nice graphics tools we already have (Krita, Mypaint, Blender, Inkscape, etc.). At the moment the only alternative (not counting thd horrendously expensive Windows running mobile studios sold by Wacom) is a couple high end Andrpid tablets and the Ipad Pro & their bunch of proprietary drawing apps.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    Yeah. I'm hoping the Librem 5 works out well enough for Purism, that they do the same thing for tablets. :)
  - opan 7y ago
    Pine64 is working on the PineTab in addition to the PinePhone. https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/ https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/
    - m4rtink 7y ago
      Interesting! But according to the specs I don't see any mention of pen support, which is quite a shame due to all the possibilities precise pointing enables on a tablet. Oh well might still get it in case the price is right for other use cases. :)
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Too bad, it was a good idea to allow “one device for everything.” I sometimes plug my iPad Pro into a USB-C interfaced large monitor and it is nice having lots of working space but this is not laptop or desktop replacement.
elipsey 7y ago
A guy I was hanging out with a hackathon this weekend was using a chromebook with crouton. An update broke his crouton intsallation and he had to find another editor and another way to spin up services, containers, etc. If you're running a linux container on a machine with a bootloader you don't control, the manufacturer can pull your card at any time for no reason. I refuse to live that way if I have a choice, even if it means crappy hardware. :p
- chx 7y ago
  Note you can get (very) old ThinkPads for a pittance which will be a much better platform for running Linux. Many actually prefer the T420/X220 for its keyboard and the performance is not as bad as one would think from the eight years passed since its release. As https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/4 https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v... attests from Sandy Bridge (2011 ThinkPad) to Kaby Lake (2017 ThinkPad) IPC only grew by 20%, the big changes were in efficiency allowing the move from 35W CPUs to 15W CPUs. Also, if you are just slightly handy, you could use the T430/X230 with the old keyboard hacked onto them. If you are even more handy, you could install a converter board and a full HD screen. If you are doing this to a T430s with an i7 CPU without an nVidia GPU you even get Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt 1 for sure but still, a converter allows you to attach TB3 devices. A T430s hacked so is basically the poor man's ThinkPad 25 which is the pinnacle of laptops. (Not counting the T480-ThinkPad 25 Frankenpad which is nuts.)
  - elipsey 7y ago
    I am typing this on $150 refurbished x230, I also have a t440s with a retrofitted IPS screen, and t450 touchpad. shhhhh..... stop telling the other hackers, they will buy them all! XD
    - 0xfaded 7y ago
      My t440s screen just died :(
      - 7y ago
Zenst 7y ago
Be nice if phones had a standard BIOS and allowed a competitive selection of operatings systems. Worked well for PC's in the end and Linux being one of many alternatives testaments that.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > Be nice if phones had a standard BIOS and allowed a competitive selection of operatings systems. Worked well for PC's in the end and Linux being one of many alternatives testaments that. It worked out well for the PC platform. Not so much for IBM, though.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    Again, where's my sledgehammer?
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    That made me go look for a long term stock chart. It's really kind of interesting: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/stock-price-history https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/stock-pric... ...it would seem IBM is still in a (very volatile) huge uptrend that started in the early 90s. Now that I think of it, you could say that if the PC platform worked out well for Linux then Linux ended up working out well for IBM.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Hence the failed PS2 attempt to retake the PC market.
- rhn_mk1 7y ago
  There's a spec from ARM for that: https://github.com/ARM-software/ebbr https://github.com/ARM-software/ebbr It's meant for embedded devices, but there's no reason it wouldn't fit on phones. Now, with u-boot going in roughly the same direction, and with incoming phones focusing on liberty, it might actually be possible.
zmmmmm 7y ago
Honestly, it makes me wonder if that whole program was really just part of their negotiation for the (recently announced) partnership with Microsoft to integrate Android and Windows. I can imagine them playing hard ball and telling MS that if they don't team up then their alternative will be to build out an entirely new OS based on this. Which honestly would have been quite an interesting play.
z3t4 7y ago
It would be cool with a (hardware) switch that you can use to go back and forth via Android and Linux? Or boot Linux and run Android ontop?
- xnzakg 7y ago
  I actually had something similar setup on my previous phone - triplebooted SailfishOS and two LineageOS installs. Only issue is I never got things like the camera working in my port of SailfishOS, and some Android apps I used wouldn't work when the phone was rooted, which is why I had one rooted Android install and one unrooted. Also, in order to switch you had to reboot into recovery and flash a zip changing which partition to boot from. Worked relatively well though.
  - voltagex_ 7y ago
    There was a fork of one of the bootloaders (littlekernel?) allowing multiboot way back when. There's also at least one EFI bootloader which would in theory allow an easy/nice boot menu - reflashing to switch sounds extremely painful.
hyperpallium 7y ago
Might be because of No more exec from data folder on targetAPI >= Android Q https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Not really, Samsung is well known for having their own customisations to AOSP. Your link is just the latest example how Android is not really Linux. Project Treble drivers, NDK constraints, white listed syscalls are all examples how userspace just gets to see a selective POSIX like OS.
xs83 7y ago
I've always imagined for a while that eventually our phones will become our day to day "Grunt" for dumb workstations. I was hoping Linux on DeX would be the start of this. Samsung DeX by itself is still pretty cool, If I am just doing admin work / SSH it actually works pretty nicely with MS Office and <favouriteSSHProgram> on a full HD monitor with Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I will probably just use this in future for when I am travelling and have to do the occasional document / email etc
mariusandra 7y ago
This is very unfortunate, even through the writing was on the wall already for a while [1] I used LoD often. It was just perfect for on-the-go javascript hacking. In fact at least 200+ commits to the Kea project [2] were written with Linux on Dex. The only issue I had was that with larger projects [3] when running in the Mate desktop environment, I quickly ran out of inodes... and there was no way to increment them. I had to turn off many things in vscode (file watcher) and my projects (recompile on change) to have an usable system. Time to look for alternatives. In the worst case I can just connect to a VNC server somewhere (LoD also used VNC), but that requires constant internet access and has issues of its own. LoD was just perfect for quick code writing in airplanes, etc. [1] https://www.sammobile.com/interviews/dex-product-manager-new-features-greater-device-support/ https://www.sammobile.com/interviews/dex-product-manager-new... [2] https://kea.js.org/ https://kea.js.org/ [3] https://github.com/mariusandra/insights https://github.com/mariusandra/insights

159 points by dsego 7y ago

Luckily there's still postmarketOS what accomplishes the same thing by replacing android on android phones with an Alpine Linux install.

kick 7y ago
It doesn't achieve the same thing. Linux on DeX had full driver support because it was running on top of Android. postmarketOS has to play catch up.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  driver support for what hardware on the device specifically? Is it not open-source? aka can it not be backported?
  - kick 7y ago
    Linux on DeX didn't have to worry about drivers at all, because it was running in a container on an Android system. Like how your USB mouse will work on an operating system that only has PS/2 support in a virtual machine.
  - bri3d 7y ago
    Android's driver APIs and userland implementation are nonstandard. They have their own libc (bionic) and their own linker. Vendors supply binary blobs for many drivers (RIL, graphics, etc.). These drivers need a series of compatibility shims to work with "normal Linux," on both sides of the driver API. The Kernel <-> Driver interface needs to be backported to Android's non-mainline HAL, usually using Halium. The driver <-> userspace API needs to be implemented, for example by xf86-video-hwcomposer or libhybris-libwayland-egl. Finally, the blob needs a libc shim to work with normal libc (libhybris itself). https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Hybris https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Hybris
    - MartijnBraam 7y ago
      I like to point out that most devices don't use hybris on postmarketOS
      - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
        and instead have native support?
jeroenhd 7y ago
Until pmOS can make a call, it doesn't. I love the postmarketOS initiative but right now it's very much a bare-bones project. The installation process is troublesome, hardware support is very limited and desktop environments work partially if at all. Phosh development is looking good but it's certainly not finished. As of now, I would certainly not advertise it as a Dex replacement.
Jonnax 7y ago
The same thing? I did some reading and it looks like the devices it runs on are ancient. Linux on Dex ran on a Note 9 which has either 6 or 8gb of RAM. With HDMI output it's possible to run visual studio code and it's very usable. Even possible to run a Dev server. And whilst I'm doing this using a monitor, keyboard and mouse, Android is still available on the device and I can use Spotify, send text messages and make phone calls. Postmarket OS looks like at best a dual boot setup, running on ancient hardware and very alpha.

Jonnax 7y ago

This actually is/was really good. On my note 9 I can open a shell. Or with HDMI get a Ubuntu desktop. Any ideas what Google changed in Android 10 to break compatibility?

scumbert 7y ago
> Any ideas what Google changed in Android 10 to break compatibility? Samsung's desire to continue developing the feature
pjmlp 7y ago
Most likely Samsung got tired to keep their fork, as regular Android doesn't expose Linux in such way that DeX is possible. For regular Android, the fact that Linux is being used is mostly transparent for userspace.
bitwize 7y ago
Could have to do with the fact that Google implemented new SELinux policies preventing the running of binaries from an app's data directory. Any binaries you run on Android 10 or later must be bundled in the apk and are read only on the device. I think Termux uses proot to get around this, so it still works (for now). If this is indeed the reason, Samsung probably just said "fuck this shit". Expect Google to push out a Fuchsia-based Android whose kernel won't allow the proot hack sometime in the next few years. Like it or not, the closed ecosystem of iOS provides more value to end users, and Google wants to bring those benefits to Android.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  > Could have to do with the fact that Google implemented new SELinux policies preventing the running of binaries from an app's data directory. Any binaries you run on Android 10 or later must be bundled in the apk and are read only on the device. Does this mean the title should read something like "Due to Android 10 update, Linux on DeX will now require a jailbreak whereas it did not before"?
  - 7y ago

nunodonato 7y ago

I was going to get a Samsung tab s4 because of DeX. Oh well, glad I waited...

panpanna 7y ago
Note that Linux on dex was an experiment that never made it out of beta. dex itself will continue to live on.
- nunodonato 7y ago
  dex has no particular interest, considering Android will have its own desktop mode. It was linux that interested me
asciimo 7y ago
Yeah, I was looking at the Note 10 for Linux on DeX. I first saw it at a Samsung developer conference and it made me consider Samsung a progressive company. Not sure I would use it regularly, but it would have been really fun to play with.

smitty1e 7y ago

Does this mean the Dex gadget itself is completely gone, or just 'Linux on Dex'?

vetinari 7y ago
Only linux on dex, dex itself will continue.
MikusR 7y ago
The gadget part has not been needed for at least a year.

xd1936 7y ago

Another article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295874

AdmiralAsshat 7y ago

Linux containers on Android devices have a long history of failure. I wonder if there's a technical reason why they keep going under, or if it's strictly a lack of interest from end-users who want a Linux desktop environment on their phones.

bhouston 7y ago
No GPU acceleration was a big issue when I tried it.
pjmlp 7y ago
Just a bunch of geeks want such environments, and it keeps getting proven by market failures that while they are vocal about it, few put their money into the devices when the opportunity arises. A vicious cycle since OpenMoko. Android is really a Java like based OS, with a native SDK for games, real time audio and integrating native libraries. Those that want CLI and interactive dev environments on the go have plenty of options written in Java.

fractalf 7y ago

Purism to the rescue! Https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ ..at least it's a start. Hopefully linux (FOSS) on mobile will eventually break through, it's sucks bigtime being dependent on a device from apple/google

m4rtink 7y ago
A decent regular Linux distro running tablet with a Wacom digitizer (precise pen with pressure and tilt support) would be really nice with all the nice graphics tools we already have (Krita, Mypaint, Blender, Inkscape, etc.). At the moment the only alternative (not counting thd horrendously expensive Windows running mobile studios sold by Wacom) is a couple high end Andrpid tablets and the Ipad Pro & their bunch of proprietary drawing apps.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Yeah. I'm hoping the Librem 5 works out well enough for Purism, that they do the same thing for tablets. :)
- opan 7y ago
  Pine64 is working on the PineTab in addition to the PinePhone. https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/ https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/
  - m4rtink 7y ago
    Interesting! But according to the specs I don't see any mention of pen support, which is quite a shame due to all the possibilities precise pointing enables on a tablet. Oh well might still get it in case the price is right for other use cases. :)

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Too bad, it was a good idea to allow “one device for everything.” I sometimes plug my iPad Pro into a USB-C interfaced large monitor and it is nice having lots of working space but this is not laptop or desktop replacement.

elipsey 7y ago

A guy I was hanging out with a hackathon this weekend was using a chromebook with crouton. An update broke his crouton intsallation and he had to find another editor and another way to spin up services, containers, etc. If you're running a linux container on a machine with a bootloader you don't control, the manufacturer can pull your card at any time for no reason. I refuse to live that way if I have a choice, even if it means crappy hardware. :p

chx 7y ago
Note you can get (very) old ThinkPads for a pittance which will be a much better platform for running Linux. Many actually prefer the T420/X220 for its keyboard and the performance is not as bad as one would think from the eight years passed since its release. As https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/4 https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v... attests from Sandy Bridge (2011 ThinkPad) to Kaby Lake (2017 ThinkPad) IPC only grew by 20%, the big changes were in efficiency allowing the move from 35W CPUs to 15W CPUs. Also, if you are just slightly handy, you could use the T430/X230 with the old keyboard hacked onto them. If you are even more handy, you could install a converter board and a full HD screen. If you are doing this to a T430s with an i7 CPU without an nVidia GPU you even get Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt 1 for sure but still, a converter allows you to attach TB3 devices. A T430s hacked so is basically the poor man's ThinkPad 25 which is the pinnacle of laptops. (Not counting the T480-ThinkPad 25 Frankenpad which is nuts.)
- elipsey 7y ago
  I am typing this on $150 refurbished x230, I also have a t440s with a retrofitted IPS screen, and t450 touchpad. shhhhh..... stop telling the other hackers, they will buy them all! XD
  - 0xfaded 7y ago
    My t440s screen just died :(
    - 7y ago

Zenst 7y ago

Be nice if phones had a standard BIOS and allowed a competitive selection of operatings systems. Worked well for PC's in the end and Linux being one of many alternatives testaments that.

nordsieck 7y ago
> Be nice if phones had a standard BIOS and allowed a competitive selection of operatings systems. Worked well for PC's in the end and Linux being one of many alternatives testaments that. It worked out well for the PC platform. Not so much for IBM, though.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Again, where's my sledgehammer?
- perl4ever 7y ago
  That made me go look for a long term stock chart. It's really kind of interesting: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/stock-price-history https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/stock-pric... ...it would seem IBM is still in a (very volatile) huge uptrend that started in the early 90s. Now that I think of it, you could say that if the PC platform worked out well for Linux then Linux ended up working out well for IBM.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Hence the failed PS2 attempt to retake the PC market.
rhn_mk1 7y ago
There's a spec from ARM for that: https://github.com/ARM-software/ebbr https://github.com/ARM-software/ebbr It's meant for embedded devices, but there's no reason it wouldn't fit on phones. Now, with u-boot going in roughly the same direction, and with incoming phones focusing on liberty, it might actually be possible.

zmmmmm 7y ago

Honestly, it makes me wonder if that whole program was really just part of their negotiation for the (recently announced) partnership with Microsoft to integrate Android and Windows. I can imagine them playing hard ball and telling MS that if they don't team up then their alternative will be to build out an entirely new OS based on this. Which honestly would have been quite an interesting play.

z3t4 7y ago

It would be cool with a (hardware) switch that you can use to go back and forth via Android and Linux? Or boot Linux and run Android ontop?

xnzakg 7y ago
I actually had something similar setup on my previous phone - triplebooted SailfishOS and two LineageOS installs. Only issue is I never got things like the camera working in my port of SailfishOS, and some Android apps I used wouldn't work when the phone was rooted, which is why I had one rooted Android install and one unrooted. Also, in order to switch you had to reboot into recovery and flash a zip changing which partition to boot from. Worked relatively well though.
- voltagex_ 7y ago
  There was a fork of one of the bootloaders (littlekernel?) allowing multiboot way back when. There's also at least one EFI bootloader which would in theory allow an easy/nice boot menu - reflashing to switch sounds extremely painful.

hyperpallium 7y ago

Might be because of No more exec from data folder on targetAPI >= Android Q https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072

pjmlp 7y ago
Not really, Samsung is well known for having their own customisations to AOSP. Your link is just the latest example how Android is not really Linux. Project Treble drivers, NDK constraints, white listed syscalls are all examples how userspace just gets to see a selective POSIX like OS.

xs83 7y ago

I've always imagined for a while that eventually our phones will become our day to day "Grunt" for dumb workstations. I was hoping Linux on DeX would be the start of this. Samsung DeX by itself is still pretty cool, If I am just doing admin work / SSH it actually works pretty nicely with MS Office and <favouriteSSHProgram> on a full HD monitor with Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I will probably just use this in future for when I am travelling and have to do the occasional document / email etc

mariusandra 7y ago

This is very unfortunate, even through the writing was on the wall already for a while [1] I used LoD often. It was just perfect for on-the-go javascript hacking. In fact at least 200+ commits to the Kea project [2] were written with Linux on Dex. The only issue I had was that with larger projects [3] when running in the Mate desktop environment, I quickly ran out of inodes... and there was no way to increment them. I had to turn off many things in vscode (file watcher) and my projects (recompile on change) to have an usable system. Time to look for alternatives. In the worst case I can just connect to a VNC server somewhere (LoD also used VNC), but that requires constant internet access and has issues of its own. LoD was just perfect for quick code writing in airplanes, etc. [1] https://www.sammobile.com/interviews/dex-product-manager-new-features-greater-device-support/ https://www.sammobile.com/interviews/dex-product-manager-new... [2] https://kea.js.org/ https://kea.js.org/ [3] https://github.com/mariusandra/insights https://github.com/mariusandra/insights