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I'm curious what actions a government would need to take before you think it's irrational to for a company to support them. Between the reported organ harvestin

I'm curious what actions a government would need to take before you think it's irrational to for a company to support them. Between the reported organ harvesting, re-education camps, and massive invasion of privacy, I'd think it would be an easy call at this point. If you're still holding out, where do you personally draw the line? Or at least, where do you think companies should draw the line?

SirensOfTitan 7y ago
I used the term "bounded rationality" deliberately. I think companies, chasing growth, ignore the harsh reality of doing business in China long term. Act as an arm of the Chinese Government or China will block you from competing and will just spawn Chinese competitors in your absence (It doesn't even seem like this is a mutually exclusive outcome). Additionally, for each company that defies the Chinese Government, there are many who are very willing to comply. In that vein, I don't understand how the west responds. As I mentioned, the more companies that comply to the sensitivities of the Chinese government, the more China dictates speech well outside of its borders. I'm personally /very/ against the world the Chinese government is building. I worry that their leadership will gradually erode liberalism all across the world. I also feel powerless to do anything other than boycott services and products that don't align with my worldview.
paulddraper 7y ago
On the other hand....what can you as a hypothetical company leader do about it? If you were a U.S. citizen who believed that the U.S. government was involved in severely unethical behavior, would you continue to make income and pay taxes? I have no problem with applying lots of pressure to Blizzard, etc. for siding with China. I agree with grandparent that I can't say my decision as an executive would necessarily be different though.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  So would you do business with North Korea? Iran? Are you evading the question or did you seriously mean to imply that there is literally nothing a country can't do and you'll still go into business with them, no matter how horrendous their actions? I think you might just not realize, or take time to imagine, what these regimes are actually doing to actual human beings. Maybe imagine it's your family, said the wrong thing, gets shackled up, underground, unable to move, injected with weird drugs for a couple of months--just one personal story I heard from an Iran refugee. I asked about his background, I meant engineering or what did he study, got a bit more background than I bargained for. If your decision as an executive would be the same, then I suppose you agree you'd deserve that "applying lots of pressure to" just as much right? Why do it then? So you just get to ignore it and do it regardless? BTW this "pressure" from the other side doesn't quite look like "pressure" but utter disgust in the moral depravity of what people will do for money. If this is your choice, then I know exactly what you are worth as a human being to me. Don't forget to tell your kids their college is paid by torture prisons. oh and IF you were a US citizen who doesn't believe the US government is involved in severely unethical behaviour, gently go fornicate yourself. it's called the CIA Torture Reports, it was a few years ago, and you can't pretend it's optional to believe it exists, because it does. It happened and is happening. I mean seriously, "IF" ??? Are you for real? Sounds like your solution to this ethical dilemma is basically denial.
michaelbrave 7y ago
Not just that but after having let your morals slide for profit, they will just as easily turn on you when convenient. I can't remember the name of it but there was a substantial Korean grocery store in china that was pushed to shutting down on a whim. I imagine similar stories will happen later as well. It would feel profitable for a few years, it wouldn't last and end up an overall loss eventually. Don't do business when you lose your soul, and don't do business with those who ask you to, you can't trust them and never could.

SirensOfTitan 7y ago

I used the term "bounded rationality" deliberately. I think companies, chasing growth, ignore the harsh reality of doing business in China long term. Act as an arm of the Chinese Government or China will block you from competing and will just spawn Chinese competitors in your absence (It doesn't even seem like this is a mutually exclusive outcome). Additionally, for each company that defies the Chinese Government, there are many who are very willing to comply. In that vein, I don't understand how the west responds. As I mentioned, the more companies that comply to the sensitivities of the Chinese government, the more China dictates speech well outside of its borders. I'm personally /very/ against the world the Chinese government is building. I worry that their leadership will gradually erode liberalism all across the world. I also feel powerless to do anything other than boycott services and products that don't align with my worldview.

paulddraper 7y ago

On the other hand....what can you as a hypothetical company leader do about it? If you were a U.S. citizen who believed that the U.S. government was involved in severely unethical behavior, would you continue to make income and pay taxes? I have no problem with applying lots of pressure to Blizzard, etc. for siding with China. I agree with grandparent that I can't say my decision as an executive would necessarily be different though.

tripzilch 7y ago
So would you do business with North Korea? Iran? Are you evading the question or did you seriously mean to imply that there is literally nothing a country can't do and you'll still go into business with them, no matter how horrendous their actions? I think you might just not realize, or take time to imagine, what these regimes are actually doing to actual human beings. Maybe imagine it's your family, said the wrong thing, gets shackled up, underground, unable to move, injected with weird drugs for a couple of months--just one personal story I heard from an Iran refugee. I asked about his background, I meant engineering or what did he study, got a bit more background than I bargained for. If your decision as an executive would be the same, then I suppose you agree you'd deserve that "applying lots of pressure to" just as much right? Why do it then? So you just get to ignore it and do it regardless? BTW this "pressure" from the other side doesn't quite look like "pressure" but utter disgust in the moral depravity of what people will do for money. If this is your choice, then I know exactly what you are worth as a human being to me. Don't forget to tell your kids their college is paid by torture prisons. oh and IF you were a US citizen who doesn't believe the US government is involved in severely unethical behaviour, gently go fornicate yourself. it's called the CIA Torture Reports, it was a few years ago, and you can't pretend it's optional to believe it exists, because it does. It happened and is happening. I mean seriously, "IF" ??? Are you for real? Sounds like your solution to this ethical dilemma is basically denial.

michaelbrave 7y ago

Not just that but after having let your morals slide for profit, they will just as easily turn on you when convenient. I can't remember the name of it but there was a substantial Korean grocery store in china that was pushed to shutting down on a whim. I imagine similar stories will happen later as well. It would feel profitable for a few years, it wouldn't last and end up an overall loss eventually. Don't do business when you lose your soul, and don't do business with those who ask you to, you can't trust them and never could.