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After listening to the BSD Canada talk on systemd and BSD, I agree Linux does benefit from a system layer. But I still hate the implementation, and you can't ea
by djsumdog 7y ago
After listening to the BSD Canada talk on systemd and BSD, I agree Linux does benefit from a system layer. But I still hate the implementation, and you can't easily swap out stuff.
I really like logrotate and syslog and not needing journalctl for stdout/err logs from services. It's one of the things that makes working with Docker containers so much nicer too, because you have sane commands to get logs for services; way easier than remember all the weird switches for journalctl.
I like NetworkManager (this still hasn't been replaced in systemd, right?)
I still use OpenRC and Runit on Gentoo/Void respectively. OpenRC does dependency management but runit not so much. When it comes to building out VMs and stuff, I see the use of systemd for mount targets, but like I said earlier, I really hate the implementation in target files. It's so hard to make drop-in replacements for systemd that can run the same target files because of just how far it goes into the system.
For VMs at this point, I honestly prefer minimal startup and running everything in Docker. Alpine or RancherOS seem to fit this bill nicely. If FreeBSD had a current Docker API implementation, it would be perfect.
For my desktop, I prefer OpenRC or runit. It's just easier to do things and I'm not fighting with the system layer like I am in Windows. Then again I use i3 and prefer to have more control over my hardware, so that's just my use case I suppose.
- kbumsik 7y ago> After listening to the BSD Canada talk on systemd and BSD For someone who don't know, here is the video "The tragedy of systemd". This is a really good talk. https://youtu.be/6AeWu1fZ7bY https://youtu.be/6AeWu1fZ7bY
- dijit 7y agoAll respect to the author of that talk.. but "just get over it" and "embrace change" is not compelling to those who have very searing issues with systemd. I do not consider this to be a good talk because it paints dissenters as "not embracing change" because.. they are stupid? It also makes the argument that the only thing that exists outside of systemd is sysvinit. He also seeks to make Lennart a martyr because of death threats. (which, btw, seriously it shouldn't even be said that that is unacceptable, some people are fucked up). Oh, and systemd definitely didn't invent cgroups, an engineer at google did and they don't even use systemd to run GCP compute hypervisors. Benno so thoroughly misrepresents those that have issues with systemd that I can't help but feel it was intentional.
- djsumdog 7y agoI didn't get that from his talk. I think it was more of a, "BSD should have a system layer. How can we make one that's way better?" .. that doesn't do all the things people hate systemd for doing.
- dijit 7y agooooooo, the grandparents video is very different in tone than the version I watched, which is the same talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo I'm sorry, I had assumed I had seen the exact video, but I had just seen the talk from another venue.