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My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism

My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. No other gaming company has the breadth of socially reformative messaging contained in WoW, Overwatch et.al. Should Blizz perform corporate harakiri by appeasing the angry SJW (not spoken derisively) in the West, the CCP would have no problem shutting down access to Blizz and the population would hardly notice. They would however not be exposed to the gaming content meaning the generational war with culture will be lost. I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy for changes to the culture in the west. An example is Marvel changing a Tibetan male monk to a western woman. His contention is that even that change was handled as well as you could expect. Even choosing the Celts as her culture is a small poke at the Chinese for their oppression of the Tibetans. Making it a woman even more so. I'm still angry at Blizz and thinking about what he said. I will at the very least boycott past the Nov. 7th earnings call to see how deep it runs. He does have a point about the greater good. This might be the wrong target for outrage.

diminoten 7y ago
No he doesn't. Some good deeds don't erase your bad deeds, especially when those bad deeds were done in what now appears to be bad faith.
- Beltiras 7y ago
  I'm still on the fence. I'm still boycotting. I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    You've "come around" to that position? Are you suggesting that the baseline isn't that position? No one is suggesting Blizzard is irredeemable, it's just very unlikely, given Blizzard's past behavior, that they're going to take the necessary steps to fix this. Honestly, what the heck are you even talking about? You sound like someone who is actively trying to misrepresent the situation...
    - Beltiras 7y ago
      I actually started out thinking Blizzard could do nothing to redeem themselves. What level of action would make me believe they could be a trusted honest actor on the cultural stage given the capitulation to CCP interest? I cancelled my WoW subscription and uninstalled all their games, quit following the streamers that produced content for Blizz games and started speaking out on social media against them. Their actions felt like betrayal of values I hold very dear. I'm active in politics locally and donate time to the Pirates (lucky enough to live in Iceland where they actually have made a huge difference).
      - drucik 7y ago
        A statement like Randy Marsh made - “F—— the Chinese government” - seems like a candidate for a redemption ;) Edit:formatting
      - diminoten 7y ago
        > What level of action would make me believe they could be a trusted honest actor on the cultural stage given the capitulation to CCP interest? You tell me! You just wrote: > I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take. What is this conversation?
  - Iv 7y ago
    I play sc2, which is free to play. I changed my account name for "FreedomForHK". I play on Asian servers and responses have been very positive so far.
moksly 7y ago
I think Blizzard is certainly catching a lot of the consumer rage that could be directed at a lot of international companies. In the same week as Blizzards censorship, the NBA and Nike has their own protest censorship and both Google and Apple removed the Hong Kong protest apps as well as the Taiwanese emoji flags. Nike and Apple both lead more progressive PR campaigns than Blizzard but they have catches less heat over the issue. I’m a little split on this. I don’t like what Blizzard did and I think it was definitely influenced by China. So I’m kind of glad this is an issue for them. At the same time my national government helped Censor maps on behalf of China to make sure we were able to get Pandas in one of our Zoos. The censorship was very nicely handled, the issue was showing Taiwan and China as two countries on a map showing panda habitants, and instead of making them one country they simply zoomed in enough for Taiwan not to be part of the map. So no lie on behalf of Chin, but still censorship... And there are just so many things related to China that are worse than Blizzard. I know this is whataboutism and I know you can boycott more things than one, but I just can’t help feeling silly boycotting Blizzard while I’m using an iPhone. I do hope this controversy sparks some legislative action, but it’s probably a really tricky area.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > And there are just so many things related to China that are worse than Blizzard. I know this is whataboutism and I know you can boycott more things than one, but I just can’t help feeling silly boycotting Blizzard while I’m using an iPhone. I don't think it's stilly. It seems like we've reached a bit of a tipping point on CCP appeasement with the NBA and Blizzard, and there's nothing wrong with hitting while the iron's hot. Hopefully the heat will spread to other areas.
Iv 7y ago
This is how modern censorship works: let people have some limited margin, some limited freedom of speech when they only talk to friends or to groups of 4-5 people. Monitor them though. Do not believe for one second that Blizzard does not handle all the chat logs to the CCP. Regular censorship must only happen when it matters: when millions are watching. This is when you strike hard and uncompromisingly. Shutting down Blizzard in China would be a punishment the CCP handles to its citizens, and a proof to the world that it is not ready to be part of the international culture. It comes with a cost as well. Dare them to do it. > I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy > for changes to the culture in the west. I totally agree and this is a very strong red line to me. I reluctantly agree that it is best that each country does not meddle too much into the national policies of each other, but if China starts to push for universality of their values, we need to stop being shy at pushing back ours.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
teknologist 7y ago
I'm not buying this. China still looks up to Western culture and brands in many ways and any subversive messaging is simply considered part of the entertainment. Limiting access to these would send a clear message that "the way you're doing things just isn't right". The e-terrorism that they've carried out using the "Great Cannon" should be internationally understood as a criminal act and get them cut off from the internet, too. That might eventually convey the message that the way they're running a country simply isn't acceptable in 2019. Many Chinese still use VPNs to access Western media and plenty of movies, TV shows and games are hosted internally on the national network. Blizzard games require a persistent connection to the company's servers to play, so if access to these were revoked a rather thought provoking message would be sent. Whether Blizzard or the CCP themselves enact that ban, I don't think it particularly matters.
lovehashbrowns 7y ago
I would be on board with this, except that Blizzard is directly making money off of that "subversive" message. It's not a greater good situation at all, it's just Blizzard making money with the aid of an authoritarian government.
_bxg1 7y ago
As a society we've been taking the "working with them is better than cutting them out" strategy for 20 years now, and it isn't working. That's how we've gotten to where we are in the first place. We are dealing with an actor that is a) working in bad faith, and b) smart. We aren't going to covertly sneak democratic values into Xi's country; he knows exactly how much is allowable before it starts to have an impact. By giving him the option, we're only helping his plans.
ng12 7y ago
> His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. They've already been censoring this subversive content. Two Overwatch characters are revealed as LGBT in the comics but those comics have been censored in China. There's also weirder examples like this: https://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/china-removes-skeletons-from-world-of-warcraft/ https://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/china-removes-skeletons-...

diminoten 7y ago

No he doesn't. Some good deeds don't erase your bad deeds, especially when those bad deeds were done in what now appears to be bad faith.

Beltiras 7y ago
I'm still on the fence. I'm still boycotting. I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take.
- diminoten 7y ago
  You've "come around" to that position? Are you suggesting that the baseline isn't that position? No one is suggesting Blizzard is irredeemable, it's just very unlikely, given Blizzard's past behavior, that they're going to take the necessary steps to fix this. Honestly, what the heck are you even talking about? You sound like someone who is actively trying to misrepresent the situation...
  - Beltiras 7y ago
    I actually started out thinking Blizzard could do nothing to redeem themselves. What level of action would make me believe they could be a trusted honest actor on the cultural stage given the capitulation to CCP interest? I cancelled my WoW subscription and uninstalled all their games, quit following the streamers that produced content for Blizz games and started speaking out on social media against them. Their actions felt like betrayal of values I hold very dear. I'm active in politics locally and donate time to the Pirates (lucky enough to live in Iceland where they actually have made a huge difference).
    - drucik 7y ago
      A statement like Randy Marsh made - “F—— the Chinese government” - seems like a candidate for a redemption ;) Edit:formatting
    - diminoten 7y ago
      > What level of action would make me believe they could be a trusted honest actor on the cultural stage given the capitulation to CCP interest? You tell me! You just wrote: > I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take. What is this conversation?
- Iv 7y ago
  I play sc2, which is free to play. I changed my account name for "FreedomForHK". I play on Asian servers and responses have been very positive so far.

moksly 7y ago

I think Blizzard is certainly catching a lot of the consumer rage that could be directed at a lot of international companies. In the same week as Blizzards censorship, the NBA and Nike has their own protest censorship and both Google and Apple removed the Hong Kong protest apps as well as the Taiwanese emoji flags. Nike and Apple both lead more progressive PR campaigns than Blizzard but they have catches less heat over the issue. I’m a little split on this. I don’t like what Blizzard did and I think it was definitely influenced by China. So I’m kind of glad this is an issue for them. At the same time my national government helped Censor maps on behalf of China to make sure we were able to get Pandas in one of our Zoos. The censorship was very nicely handled, the issue was showing Taiwan and China as two countries on a map showing panda habitants, and instead of making them one country they simply zoomed in enough for Taiwan not to be part of the map. So no lie on behalf of Chin, but still censorship... And there are just so many things related to China that are worse than Blizzard. I know this is whataboutism and I know you can boycott more things than one, but I just can’t help feeling silly boycotting Blizzard while I’m using an iPhone. I do hope this controversy sparks some legislative action, but it’s probably a really tricky area.

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> And there are just so many things related to China that are worse than Blizzard. I know this is whataboutism and I know you can boycott more things than one, but I just can’t help feeling silly boycotting Blizzard while I’m using an iPhone. I don't think it's stilly. It seems like we've reached a bit of a tipping point on CCP appeasement with the NBA and Blizzard, and there's nothing wrong with hitting while the iron's hot. Hopefully the heat will spread to other areas.

Iv 7y ago

This is how modern censorship works: let people have some limited margin, some limited freedom of speech when they only talk to friends or to groups of 4-5 people. Monitor them though. Do not believe for one second that Blizzard does not handle all the chat logs to the CCP. Regular censorship must only happen when it matters: when millions are watching. This is when you strike hard and uncompromisingly. Shutting down Blizzard in China would be a punishment the CCP handles to its citizens, and a proof to the world that it is not ready to be part of the international culture. It comes with a cost as well. Dare them to do it. > I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy > for changes to the culture in the west. I totally agree and this is a very strong red line to me. I reluctantly agree that it is best that each country does not meddle too much into the national policies of each other, but if China starts to push for universality of their values, we need to stop being shy at pushing back ours.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

teknologist 7y ago

I'm not buying this. China still looks up to Western culture and brands in many ways and any subversive messaging is simply considered part of the entertainment. Limiting access to these would send a clear message that "the way you're doing things just isn't right". The e-terrorism that they've carried out using the "Great Cannon" should be internationally understood as a criminal act and get them cut off from the internet, too. That might eventually convey the message that the way they're running a country simply isn't acceptable in 2019. Many Chinese still use VPNs to access Western media and plenty of movies, TV shows and games are hosted internally on the national network. Blizzard games require a persistent connection to the company's servers to play, so if access to these were revoked a rather thought provoking message would be sent. Whether Blizzard or the CCP themselves enact that ban, I don't think it particularly matters.

lovehashbrowns 7y ago

I would be on board with this, except that Blizzard is directly making money off of that "subversive" message. It's not a greater good situation at all, it's just Blizzard making money with the aid of an authoritarian government.

_bxg1 7y ago

As a society we've been taking the "working with them is better than cutting them out" strategy for 20 years now, and it isn't working. That's how we've gotten to where we are in the first place. We are dealing with an actor that is a) working in bad faith, and b) smart. We aren't going to covertly sneak democratic values into Xi's country; he knows exactly how much is allowable before it starts to have an impact. By giving him the option, we're only helping his plans.

ng12 7y ago

> His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. They've already been censoring this subversive content. Two Overwatch characters are revealed as LGBT in the comics but those comics have been censored in China. There's also weirder examples like this: https://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/china-removes-skeletons-from-world-of-warcraft/ https://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/china-removes-skeletons-...