7 ms·

"Colonialism can be blamed for so much though." True but one thing they can't be blamed for is the lack of infrastructure before they got there. Knowing that,

"Colonialism can be blamed for so much though." True but one thing they can't be blamed for is the lack of infrastructure before they got there. Knowing that, they can't be blamed for the lack of infrastructure built after they left. Colonialism then is the same as corporatism today - there is a very large amount of value extraction, which good or bad, still exists. One can say that the cruelty has diminished somewhat, but perhaps that's because the wealth to be gained has only increased? Oddly though, this cruelty often means that the regions affected by it have better roads, cleaner water, at least traces of medicine, and on the whole better transit. Not always, to be sure.

FussyZeus 7y ago
So the brutality experienced by the Congo is okay because they left roads afterwards? That's a hell of a viewpoint.
- not_a_cop75 7y ago
  Compare it to the deadliness of the preexisting tribes and it's an obvious improvement. Obviously no match for the reasonable sensitivity of society of today. Feel free to believe the common lie that every indigenous was a graceful peaceful person that wouldn't hurt a fly. Hard to come up with a greater untruth than that.
  - FussyZeus 7y ago
    I didn't say anything like that, nor do I believe it. But to say that the savages had it coming because they didn't invent the guns first is classic "the victor writes the history books" stuff and really indicative of how little you've left your personal bubble in life. "Might Makes Right" is an appealing philosophy, until you're on the wrong end of it.
    - not_a_cop75 7y ago
      Nobody says the savages had it coming, but whenever you have the equivalent of a government or society of serial killers, human decency has certainly a right to tear that structure down. Being "indigenous" is not a get out of jail free card. If it were so, the germans would never have been prosecuted for war crimes. If you believe that "home grown" totalitarianism or serial killing is okay as long as it's "home grown", I can't help but feel bad for your awkwardly backwards "nationalistic" views. This is not to say that all indigenous are serial killers, but some regions are well known for such behavior among their indigenous. Edit: I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
      - FussyZeus 7y ago
        I have to say I'm impressed with your comfort levels of being this nakedly racist. That is unless the Congo was particularly violent which despite reading about it to a great extent, I never heard anything about.
        not_a_cop75 7y ago
        I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... Apparently, Congo is in the 50 most violent countries. That's also recent. It has no accounting for what they were, but I'm willing to believe it may have been worse.
        FussyZeus 7y ago
        > I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statist... > Apparently, Congo is in the 50 most violent countries. That's also recent. It has no accounting for what they were, but I'm willing to believe it may have been worse. Unless we have data that hails from the 1800's regarding pre-Belgium rates, which I'd say is pretty damn unlikely, I don't see how you can possibly make this point. It just sounds like good old fashioned racism with the window trimmings of science and data stripped of any and all context, which is a pretty standard fare tactic for a racist. "The crime rates are so high in Detroit, must be all the blacks!" Can't possibly be the catastrophic recession or the lukewarm response by the Government to address the problems, no, black people are just naturally violent. That's why we had to kill them and put them in chains.

FussyZeus 7y ago

So the brutality experienced by the Congo is okay because they left roads afterwards? That's a hell of a viewpoint.

not_a_cop75 7y ago
Compare it to the deadliness of the preexisting tribes and it's an obvious improvement. Obviously no match for the reasonable sensitivity of society of today. Feel free to believe the common lie that every indigenous was a graceful peaceful person that wouldn't hurt a fly. Hard to come up with a greater untruth than that.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  I didn't say anything like that, nor do I believe it. But to say that the savages had it coming because they didn't invent the guns first is classic "the victor writes the history books" stuff and really indicative of how little you've left your personal bubble in life. "Might Makes Right" is an appealing philosophy, until you're on the wrong end of it.
  - not_a_cop75 7y ago
    Nobody says the savages had it coming, but whenever you have the equivalent of a government or society of serial killers, human decency has certainly a right to tear that structure down. Being "indigenous" is not a get out of jail free card. If it were so, the germans would never have been prosecuted for war crimes. If you believe that "home grown" totalitarianism or serial killing is okay as long as it's "home grown", I can't help but feel bad for your awkwardly backwards "nationalistic" views. This is not to say that all indigenous are serial killers, but some regions are well known for such behavior among their indigenous. Edit: I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
    - FussyZeus 7y ago
      I have to say I'm impressed with your comfort levels of being this nakedly racist. That is unless the Congo was particularly violent which despite reading about it to a great extent, I never heard anything about.
      - not_a_cop75 7y ago
        I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... Apparently, Congo is in the 50 most violent countries. That's also recent. It has no accounting for what they were, but I'm willing to believe it may have been worse.
        FussyZeus 7y ago
        > I don't believe in racism. Only genetics and statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statist... > Apparently, Congo is in the 50 most violent countries. That's also recent. It has no accounting for what they were, but I'm willing to believe it may have been worse. Unless we have data that hails from the 1800's regarding pre-Belgium rates, which I'd say is pretty damn unlikely, I don't see how you can possibly make this point. It just sounds like good old fashioned racism with the window trimmings of science and data stripped of any and all context, which is a pretty standard fare tactic for a racist. "The crime rates are so high in Detroit, must be all the blacks!" Can't possibly be the catastrophic recession or the lukewarm response by the Government to address the problems, no, black people are just naturally violent. That's why we had to kill them and put them in chains.