3 ms·

I lean more toward the side that climate change is starting to become undeniable, even to subjective experience, but in either case it really is a Pascal's wage

by skohan 7y ago

I lean more toward the side that climate change is starting to become undeniable, even to subjective experience, but in either case it really is a Pascal's wager as far as I can see. The worst case if we act as if climate change is real and it's not real is that the economy might slow a bit, and the environment probably becomes quite a bit healthier. The worst case if we act as if climate change is not real and it is in fact real is that the only place we know of in the universe where our species can exist might become uninhabitable.

frogpelt 7y ago
I disagree. If climate change is as catastrophic as it is being portrayed by most it's not going to a cause economic slowdown. It will cause massive economic upheaval. If all fossil fuel vehicles are replaced by 2030 think of the scale of that. Every gas station in the U.S. will close. 98% of the cars on road will become junk items.
- chimprich 7y ago
  > If all fossil fuel vehicles are replaced by 2030 think of the scale of that What's the lifespan of a car? A large proportion of vehicles will be replaced anyway in 11 years.
  - frogpelt 7y ago
    Every used car lot in the country would disappear.
- pritambaral 7y ago
  > Every gas station in the U.S. will close. 98% of the cars on road will become junk items. If we do act, what you say here will happen, but we'll have charging stations instead and cars of a different kind on the road. If climate change is real and we don't act: what you say will happen, with no replacement. The question isn't whether gas stations can stay. The question is if we can stay on this planet.
- skohan 7y ago
  Yes this change would destroy a lot of things, but it would require creating a lot of things as well. Replacing all those cars and gas stations with something else, like EVs and more public transportation will require a massive infrastructure effort. It might require demand reduction, like requiring employers to allow employees to work remotely when possible. Yes these are big changes, but again what would be the alternative? To me it's like if you were diagnosed to Celiac's disease. Imagine your doctor tells you that you must stop eating grains or you will go insane and die. That may require making significant changes to your lifestyle you don't want to make, but can you really afford to just hope medical scientific consensus is wrong, and that you've been misdiagnosed, just because it's too hard or too complicated to make a change?
hi5eyes 7y ago
extinction rebellion, the hundreds of videos flooding twitter of climate change activists blocking streets/intersections (one video that blew up was of "activists" on top of a train. stopping it, working class people trying to get to work in the most environmentally friendly way) have been ruining the movement everyone is aware of the real effects of climate change but the extremes people are going about it (hysteria/moral panic) are dishonest. I would guess the majority of us western relatively well off middle/upper middle class understand the hardest hit by climate change will be the poors/lower classes. so far I've seen the ecofriendly movement as a war on the less fortunate. The biggest enemies of the environment are still the huge corporations/shipping and the us military/select countries.

by skohan 7y ago

frogpelt 7y ago

I disagree. If climate change is as catastrophic as it is being portrayed by most it's not going to a cause economic slowdown. It will cause massive economic upheaval. If all fossil fuel vehicles are replaced by 2030 think of the scale of that. Every gas station in the U.S. will close. 98% of the cars on road will become junk items.

chimprich 7y ago
> If all fossil fuel vehicles are replaced by 2030 think of the scale of that What's the lifespan of a car? A large proportion of vehicles will be replaced anyway in 11 years.
- frogpelt 7y ago
  Every used car lot in the country would disappear.
pritambaral 7y ago
> Every gas station in the U.S. will close. 98% of the cars on road will become junk items. If we do act, what you say here will happen, but we'll have charging stations instead and cars of a different kind on the road. If climate change is real and we don't act: what you say will happen, with no replacement. The question isn't whether gas stations can stay. The question is if we can stay on this planet.
skohan 7y ago
Yes this change would destroy a lot of things, but it would require creating a lot of things as well. Replacing all those cars and gas stations with something else, like EVs and more public transportation will require a massive infrastructure effort. It might require demand reduction, like requiring employers to allow employees to work remotely when possible. Yes these are big changes, but again what would be the alternative? To me it's like if you were diagnosed to Celiac's disease. Imagine your doctor tells you that you must stop eating grains or you will go insane and die. That may require making significant changes to your lifestyle you don't want to make, but can you really afford to just hope medical scientific consensus is wrong, and that you've been misdiagnosed, just because it's too hard or too complicated to make a change?

hi5eyes 7y ago

extinction rebellion, the hundreds of videos flooding twitter of climate change activists blocking streets/intersections (one video that blew up was of "activists" on top of a train. stopping it, working class people trying to get to work in the most environmentally friendly way) have been ruining the movement everyone is aware of the real effects of climate change but the extremes people are going about it (hysteria/moral panic) are dishonest. I would guess the majority of us western relatively well off middle/upper middle class understand the hardest hit by climate change will be the poors/lower classes. so far I've seen the ecofriendly movement as a war on the less fortunate. The biggest enemies of the environment are still the huge corporations/shipping and the us military/select countries.