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>A "play fight" or a round of Rocket League may not result in physical injury but it's still an aggressive display of dominance rather than a cooperative exchan

>A "play fight" or a round of Rocket League may not result in physical injury but it's still an aggressive display of dominance rather than a cooperative exchange. Spoken like someone who was taught a “lens” to read everything in the world. We can just as easily invent the opposite meaning: that they were both insecure about looking bad at their job, and punted on the question of which design is better and settled the question of which design was used with competition neither of them would mind losing. Armchair phsycoanalysis that assumes all men are still 16 year old boys is lazy and insulting.

pluma 7y ago
I'm a man. I explicitly said this is not about men vs women but about performative masculinity. That said, did it even occur to you that suggesting a dispute between two grown adult men should best be solved with wrestling or a competitive round of video games is in itself infantilising? This doesn't resolve the dispute, it just uses a feat of strength to establish literally unquestioned dominance (even if that dominance is purely situational and would require re-establishing on the next dispute). Resolving a dispute involves, y'know, actually talking and understanding each other's point of view. But that requires empathy.
- kempbellt 7y ago
  >Resolving a dispute involves, y'know, actually talking and understanding each other's point of view. But that requires empathy. History would disagree, and then hit you with a stick until you agree with its disagreement. Resolving a reasonable dispute (aka, a debate) can be done via talking it out, but this requires both parties to agree upon the rules for "winning" this dispute. Typically, in regards to physical confrontation, resolving a logical disagreement isn't the goal. It's about imbalance of respect. Two people wrestling things out in an agreed upon match, builds camaraderie. You learn to trust one another, and how to defend yourself at the same time. Which can be extremely beneficial for people working together on a team. Also, take note. Nothing I said included terms like "man", "masculinity", or being an "adult". There's no need conflate these terms with this type of action. Women, and children, also exhibit these social mechanisms.
  - pluma 7y ago
    Holy shit, I can't believe I even bothered trying to reason with someone on the Internet who seriously thinks an impromptu wrestling match is a good way to resolve a disagreement at work. You're either a troll or larping. "Wrestling things out builds comradery"? We're talking about a disagreement about a work issue in a software company. Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A: kempbellt. EDIT: I'm eagerly awaiting being challenged to a duel now.
    - kempbellt 7y ago
      You are sensationalizing and taking things out of context. I said wrestling is an effective team building tool. If you are trying to settle on which version of React to use in a project, weigh out the pros and cons in an office. If you are looking to work more effectively with some of your coworkers wrestling, or any other form of grappling martial-art (I've enjoyed BJJ), is a valid option. In case you aren't aware of what this is, it's essentially playing three-dimensional chess with your opponent until someone ends up in a physical checkmate. It's fun, respectful, good exercise, and great for building camaraderie - as I mentioned. I'm not talking about scrapping things out in the parking lot like a couple of high schoolers. If you'd rather play actual chess, that's also a valid option. At a previous company, my team did a break-out room together. Do what works for you. "Eagerly awaiting a challenge" from someone you are disagreeing with on the internet is inciting a challenge, in a very childish way. Also, Google larping. It doesn't make sense in your sentence.
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't cross into flamewar, regardless of how wrong or annoying another commenter is. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't cross into flamewar, regardless of how wrong or annoying another commenter is. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pluma 7y ago

I'm a man. I explicitly said this is not about men vs women but about performative masculinity. That said, did it even occur to you that suggesting a dispute between two grown adult men should best be solved with wrestling or a competitive round of video games is in itself infantilising? This doesn't resolve the dispute, it just uses a feat of strength to establish literally unquestioned dominance (even if that dominance is purely situational and would require re-establishing on the next dispute). Resolving a dispute involves, y'know, actually talking and understanding each other's point of view. But that requires empathy.

kempbellt 7y ago
>Resolving a dispute involves, y'know, actually talking and understanding each other's point of view. But that requires empathy. History would disagree, and then hit you with a stick until you agree with its disagreement. Resolving a reasonable dispute (aka, a debate) can be done via talking it out, but this requires both parties to agree upon the rules for "winning" this dispute. Typically, in regards to physical confrontation, resolving a logical disagreement isn't the goal. It's about imbalance of respect. Two people wrestling things out in an agreed upon match, builds camaraderie. You learn to trust one another, and how to defend yourself at the same time. Which can be extremely beneficial for people working together on a team. Also, take note. Nothing I said included terms like "man", "masculinity", or being an "adult". There's no need conflate these terms with this type of action. Women, and children, also exhibit these social mechanisms.
- pluma 7y ago
  Holy shit, I can't believe I even bothered trying to reason with someone on the Internet who seriously thinks an impromptu wrestling match is a good way to resolve a disagreement at work. You're either a troll or larping. "Wrestling things out builds comradery"? We're talking about a disagreement about a work issue in a software company. Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A: kempbellt. EDIT: I'm eagerly awaiting being challenged to a duel now.
  - kempbellt 7y ago
    You are sensationalizing and taking things out of context. I said wrestling is an effective team building tool. If you are trying to settle on which version of React to use in a project, weigh out the pros and cons in an office. If you are looking to work more effectively with some of your coworkers wrestling, or any other form of grappling martial-art (I've enjoyed BJJ), is a valid option. In case you aren't aware of what this is, it's essentially playing three-dimensional chess with your opponent until someone ends up in a physical checkmate. It's fun, respectful, good exercise, and great for building camaraderie - as I mentioned. I'm not talking about scrapping things out in the parking lot like a couple of high schoolers. If you'd rather play actual chess, that's also a valid option. At a previous company, my team did a break-out room together. Do what works for you. "Eagerly awaiting a challenge" from someone you are disagreeing with on the internet is inciting a challenge, in a very childish way. Also, Google larping. It doesn't make sense in your sentence.
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't cross into flamewar, regardless of how wrong or annoying another commenter is. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't cross into flamewar, regardless of how wrong or annoying another commenter is. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html