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I'm consistently confused by what people mean when they say "leftist".

by habnds 7y ago

rayiner 7y ago
There are a wide range of “leftist” policies, but they generally include things like higher taxes to support more social services, strong support for labor unions, higher minimum wages, higher government regulation of various aspects of the economy, various social policies including deemphasizing traditional families and religious institutions, etc. California may not be “socialist” like Sanders wants (and frankly, no country in the OECD is “socialist” anymore the way Sanders wants), but it’s certainly more leftist than the rest of the US. It’s got the highest taxes, among the highest social spending, much more government regulation of the economy, higher percentage of union workers than the US average, the highest minimum wage, etc. If should be doing a lot better than other US states.
- habnds 7y ago
  So it sounds like "leftist" is just a term you use for any democratic policy, not a subset? Like it's not just Sander's dems, its California which is not all that extreme (yet?)
  - rayiner 7y ago
    > So it sounds like "leftist" is just a term you use for any democratic policy, not a subset? No. The 1996 Democratic platform was quite right wing for example. And California Democrats’ policies on criminal justice were very much to the right. > Like it's not just Sander's dems, its California which is not all that extreme (yet?) I’m comparing states to each other, so I’m using “leftist” to indicate that California’s policies are further to the left compared to other states.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > California may not be “socialist” like Sanders wants (and frankly, no country in the OECD is “socialist” anymore the way Sanders wants) Sanders “Democratic Socialism” is basically European social democracy; none of the things Sanders seeks are all that uncommon, or even for the most part particularly “socialist”, by OECD standards. > [California]’s got the highest taxes It's not even in the top 20% of states by tax burden, coming in at 11 out of 50. (Iowa, which somehow never gets called leftist, is #10) [0] [0] https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
non-entity 7y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. I tend to think of leftist as relating to left wing ideologies (socialism, Marxism, communism, whatever), but in many internet enclaves, it seems to refer to being on the further and of the American Democrat party.
- kuzimoto 7y ago
  Yes, "leftist" is referring to the most radical part of the Democratic party, which is trending more socialist. So both parts are correct.
  - habnds 7y ago
    That is what I think, but in usage, for instance here, the person is identifying Cali as a bastion of leftist policies and I don't think Cali is particularly far left. Harris, Feinstein and Pelosi are all pretty center, until 2011 they had a Republican governo,r and these tech companies and their values are decidely not liberal. Further, Cali is home to some very conservative politics, Devin Nunes is way out there as is Kevin McCarthy. The idea of leftist doesn't seem consistent with the usage.
    - tropo 7y ago
      Since you don't think California is particularly far left, I'd love to know your list of states that are. Where would you rank California? Perhaps pondering that question will trigger a recalibration.
- habnds 7y ago
  I had some speculation about what the term is so flexible originally that I removed in the interest of actually hearing what people think :)
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  More standard centre right positions (in UK /EU terms ) in a lot of cases - Pres Obama was in UK Terms a on nation Tory like Rory Williams or Ken Clark.
eli_gottlieb 7y ago
Good. You should be. Rayiner is pointing out a legitimate contradiction: that the actually existing coalition labeled "the Left" and the set of goals, values, and commitments that self-declare as "left-wing" are, in our present time and in certain places, contradictory. This leaves open the question of which one will be realigned to the other: the commitments, or the coalition?
- habnds 7y ago
  I'm asking what he or you think the coalition that makes up the left is. Is it just a more derisive term for dems? Is it a subset of dems with specific policies? I'm asking for a definition of the term he and you are using. Not your critique of a group that I don't understand the definition of.
  - eli_gottlieb 7y ago
    I would say I'm talking about the "progressive wing" of the Dems, such as "the Squad" and similar. The funny thing about that particular coalition in California is that it seems to have become a pro-rent-control, anti-construction, anti-tax NIMBY lobby on housing and infrastructure.
ctdonath 7y ago
The political term “left” actually started at the beginning of the French Revolution, where the legislative chamber was distinctly left and right sides, with the left side occupied by those waving the banner of “liberté, égalité, fraternité” and who increasingly slaughtered anyone whose views differed from Robespierre. The term continues today, with similar physically left-right distribution of comparable views within the U.S. legislative chamber.
pgcj_poster 7y ago
In general, Leftists are people who hold equality as their principle political value. Originally, leftists were people who opposed monarchy and supported democracy, because they wanted everyone to have an equal role in making political decisions. Socialists and Communists are universally considered left-wing, because they support economic equality. Movements that advocate for the social equality of disempowered groups, like women, immigrants, racial minorities, and LGBTQ people, are also usually considered left-wing. In the US, the Democratic party is the more left-wing of the two main parties and is sometimes included under the "leftist" umbrella. However, some people, mostly on the far-left, reserve the term "leftist" for those who oppose capitalism.

I'm consistently confused by what people mean when they say "leftist".

by habnds 7y ago

I'm consistently confused by what people mean when they say "leftist".

There are a wide range of “leftist” policies, but they generally include things like higher taxes to support more social services, strong support for labor unions, higher minimum wages, higher government regulation of various aspects of the economy, various social policies including deemphasizing traditional families and religious institutions, etc. California may not be “socialist” like Sanders wants (and frankly, no country in the OECD is “socialist” anymore the way Sanders wants), but it’s certainly more leftist than the rest of the US. It’s got the highest taxes, among the highest social spending, much more government regulation of the economy, higher percentage of union workers than the US average, the highest minimum wage, etc. If should be doing a lot better than other US states.

habnds 7y ago
So it sounds like "leftist" is just a term you use for any democratic policy, not a subset? Like it's not just Sander's dems, its California which is not all that extreme (yet?)
- rayiner 7y ago
  > So it sounds like "leftist" is just a term you use for any democratic policy, not a subset? No. The 1996 Democratic platform was quite right wing for example. And California Democrats’ policies on criminal justice were very much to the right. > Like it's not just Sander's dems, its California which is not all that extreme (yet?) I’m comparing states to each other, so I’m using “leftist” to indicate that California’s policies are further to the left compared to other states.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> California may not be “socialist” like Sanders wants (and frankly, no country in the OECD is “socialist” anymore the way Sanders wants) Sanders “Democratic Socialism” is basically European social democracy; none of the things Sanders seeks are all that uncommon, or even for the most part particularly “socialist”, by OECD standards. > [California]’s got the highest taxes It's not even in the top 20% of states by tax burden, coming in at 11 out of 50. (Iowa, which somehow never gets called leftist, is #10) [0] [0] https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

non-entity 7y ago

Not sure why you're downvoted. I tend to think of leftist as relating to left wing ideologies (socialism, Marxism, communism, whatever), but in many internet enclaves, it seems to refer to being on the further and of the American Democrat party.

kuzimoto 7y ago
Yes, "leftist" is referring to the most radical part of the Democratic party, which is trending more socialist. So both parts are correct.
- habnds 7y ago
  That is what I think, but in usage, for instance here, the person is identifying Cali as a bastion of leftist policies and I don't think Cali is particularly far left. Harris, Feinstein and Pelosi are all pretty center, until 2011 they had a Republican governo,r and these tech companies and their values are decidely not liberal. Further, Cali is home to some very conservative politics, Devin Nunes is way out there as is Kevin McCarthy. The idea of leftist doesn't seem consistent with the usage.
  - tropo 7y ago
    Since you don't think California is particularly far left, I'd love to know your list of states that are. Where would you rank California? Perhaps pondering that question will trigger a recalibration.
habnds 7y ago
I had some speculation about what the term is so flexible originally that I removed in the interest of actually hearing what people think :)
C1sc0cat 7y ago
More standard centre right positions (in UK /EU terms ) in a lot of cases - Pres Obama was in UK Terms a on nation Tory like Rory Williams or Ken Clark.

eli_gottlieb 7y ago

Good. You should be. Rayiner is pointing out a legitimate contradiction: that the actually existing coalition labeled "the Left" and the set of goals, values, and commitments that self-declare as "left-wing" are, in our present time and in certain places, contradictory. This leaves open the question of which one will be realigned to the other: the commitments, or the coalition?

habnds 7y ago
I'm asking what he or you think the coalition that makes up the left is. Is it just a more derisive term for dems? Is it a subset of dems with specific policies? I'm asking for a definition of the term he and you are using. Not your critique of a group that I don't understand the definition of.
- eli_gottlieb 7y ago
  I would say I'm talking about the "progressive wing" of the Dems, such as "the Squad" and similar. The funny thing about that particular coalition in California is that it seems to have become a pro-rent-control, anti-construction, anti-tax NIMBY lobby on housing and infrastructure.

ctdonath 7y ago

The political term “left” actually started at the beginning of the French Revolution, where the legislative chamber was distinctly left and right sides, with the left side occupied by those waving the banner of “liberté, égalité, fraternité” and who increasingly slaughtered anyone whose views differed from Robespierre. The term continues today, with similar physically left-right distribution of comparable views within the U.S. legislative chamber.

pgcj_poster 7y ago

In general, Leftists are people who hold equality as their principle political value. Originally, leftists were people who opposed monarchy and supported democracy, because they wanted everyone to have an equal role in making political decisions. Socialists and Communists are universally considered left-wing, because they support economic equality. Movements that advocate for the social equality of disempowered groups, like women, immigrants, racial minorities, and LGBTQ people, are also usually considered left-wing. In the US, the Democratic party is the more left-wing of the two main parties and is sometimes included under the "leftist" umbrella. However, some people, mostly on the far-left, reserve the term "leftist" for those who oppose capitalism.