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At least here in Europe yellow means 'stop in safety conditions'. So if the driver saw yellow and didn't stop then they can't blame that the red light came too

At least here in Europe yellow means 'stop in safety conditions'. So if the driver saw yellow and didn't stop then they can't blame that the red light came too fast because they should be stopped already.

lmilcin 7y ago
The issue is that somebody decided that you should be clear of the intersection as soon as the light turns red but it is not enough time if you travel slowly or if you need to turn left. If you close to the intersection you might still see green or yellow very briefly but the act of slowing down to turn left is enough for you to run in red light territory and get fined. There apparently is a formula that calculates how long travelers need to leave the intersection and, presumably, if you are still there it means you ran red light. It seems the formula is wrong as it does not grant enough time for lawful travelers in normal conditions.
- auiya 7y ago
  > There apparently is a formula that calculates how long travelers need to leave the intersection and, presumably, if you are still there it means you ran red light. It seems the formula is wrong as it does not grant enough time for lawful travelers in normal conditions. The condition of waiting for oncoming traffic to clear the intersection so that you may safely make a turn across the oncoming traffic stream is a common one, and presumably leaves most drivers in the intersection when the light turns red in dense traffic.
  - jagged-chisel 7y ago
    I witness drivers in this situation just sitting right where they are, past their stop line, left signal blinking, far too close to the perpendicular travel lanes, refusing the clear the intersection until they get the arrow. Worse: they're the only ones wanting to turn, they're past the sensor, and the next cycle is solid green only.
nunwuo 7y ago
> So if the driver saw yellow and didn't stop then they can't blame that the red light came too fast because they should be stopped already. Huh? Even if you slam your brakes immediately when the light turns yellow, you might not stop on time if the yellow light is only on for, say, 100 milliseconds if you were close enough to the intersection. This isn't at all as simple as you make it out to be, and the article made a pretty good point.
- ainiriand 7y ago
  You are right, I took it from a different angle (the incorrect one).
S_A_P 7y ago
There is more to this story. What really happened is the company that contracted with the Oregon town to implement these red light cameras tweaked the yellow light settings to "increase safety", err I mean increase revenue for both the municipality and themselves.
pluma 7y ago
This is how it is in Germany at least. Yellow means "stop unless doing so would result in a dangerous situation", i.e. unless you'd have to brake hard in order to come to a full stop before crossing the line.
Shivetya 7y ago
Follow the classic Starman explanation, red light stop, green light go, yellow light go really really fast.[1] In my state you are permitted to enter an intersection if the light is solid yellow which is used to indicate it till soon be red. We also have recently seen an expansion of the yellow left turn signals that can be yellow while your main lane is red, meaning you can make a left turn as long as oncoming traffic permits. Those actually made things much better at many intersections. still when I learned to drive I was told if I was turning and the first car in line that I should be in the intersection ready to turn which could mean completing the turn on red https://youtu.be/6NEFYCaKakE https://youtu.be/6NEFYCaKakE
jmnicolas 7y ago
Europe is not a country. In France a yellow gets you a fine. A red gets you a heftier fine and a penalty on your driving license points.
- ainiriand 7y ago
  Sorry I thought that the driving rules were the same all across the EU. We have the same fromat for licence permit even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence Maybe the fines are different, not sure.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    A moment's thought should show that's clearly wrong: they drive on the left in Ireland, Britain, Malta and Cyprus.
- noneeeed 7y ago
  I'm not sure if I misunderstand you, but that seems dangerous What if it changes to yellow just before you get to the line, are you supposed to slam on the breaks or risk getting a fine for going through on amber? In the UK the amber means "prepare to stop" but only if you can do so safely. If you are too close to stop then you should carry on through (which should be safe as all other lights should be red at this point).
  - jmnicolas 7y ago
    Yellow lights are in a gray area (pun intended ;-) You're supposed to stop safely but you're supposed to have "mastery of your vehicle" at all time. So basically it all boils down to the mood of the cops. I would say it's not frequent to be fined for a yellow (never happened to me in more than 20 years of driving) but I'm pretty sure it would fail your driving license exam. I think (but I'm not sure) that traffic light cameras only catch red lights.
- Ixio 7y ago
  ainiriand said 'stop in safety conditions' which is also the law in France. The problem is proving you couldn't stop in safety conditions when you receive the fine. > Article R412-31 du Code de la route. Vous devez obligatoirement vous arrêter au feu orange, sauf si cela doit vous conduire à un danger.
ReptileMan 7y ago
It really depends on the country. Generally speaking yellow means stop if you are able to stop safely. There is also rule that even if you have green light you cannot enter intersection while it is congested and there are cars inside. So if you enter on yellow and the other traffic hit you it is their fault. If you cannot stop safely then you hit the pedal so that you clear the intersection asap since stopping to full stop in the middle of it is bad idea.

lmilcin 7y ago

The issue is that somebody decided that you should be clear of the intersection as soon as the light turns red but it is not enough time if you travel slowly or if you need to turn left. If you close to the intersection you might still see green or yellow very briefly but the act of slowing down to turn left is enough for you to run in red light territory and get fined. There apparently is a formula that calculates how long travelers need to leave the intersection and, presumably, if you are still there it means you ran red light. It seems the formula is wrong as it does not grant enough time for lawful travelers in normal conditions.

auiya 7y ago
> There apparently is a formula that calculates how long travelers need to leave the intersection and, presumably, if you are still there it means you ran red light. It seems the formula is wrong as it does not grant enough time for lawful travelers in normal conditions. The condition of waiting for oncoming traffic to clear the intersection so that you may safely make a turn across the oncoming traffic stream is a common one, and presumably leaves most drivers in the intersection when the light turns red in dense traffic.
- jagged-chisel 7y ago
  I witness drivers in this situation just sitting right where they are, past their stop line, left signal blinking, far too close to the perpendicular travel lanes, refusing the clear the intersection until they get the arrow. Worse: they're the only ones wanting to turn, they're past the sensor, and the next cycle is solid green only.

nunwuo 7y ago

> So if the driver saw yellow and didn't stop then they can't blame that the red light came too fast because they should be stopped already. Huh? Even if you slam your brakes immediately when the light turns yellow, you might not stop on time if the yellow light is only on for, say, 100 milliseconds if you were close enough to the intersection. This isn't at all as simple as you make it out to be, and the article made a pretty good point.

ainiriand 7y ago
You are right, I took it from a different angle (the incorrect one).

S_A_P 7y ago

There is more to this story. What really happened is the company that contracted with the Oregon town to implement these red light cameras tweaked the yellow light settings to "increase safety", err I mean increase revenue for both the municipality and themselves.

pluma 7y ago

This is how it is in Germany at least. Yellow means "stop unless doing so would result in a dangerous situation", i.e. unless you'd have to brake hard in order to come to a full stop before crossing the line.

Shivetya 7y ago

Follow the classic Starman explanation, red light stop, green light go, yellow light go really really fast.[1] In my state you are permitted to enter an intersection if the light is solid yellow which is used to indicate it till soon be red. We also have recently seen an expansion of the yellow left turn signals that can be yellow while your main lane is red, meaning you can make a left turn as long as oncoming traffic permits. Those actually made things much better at many intersections. still when I learned to drive I was told if I was turning and the first car in line that I should be in the intersection ready to turn which could mean completing the turn on red https://youtu.be/6NEFYCaKakE https://youtu.be/6NEFYCaKakE

jmnicolas 7y ago

Europe is not a country. In France a yellow gets you a fine. A red gets you a heftier fine and a penalty on your driving license points.

ainiriand 7y ago
Sorry I thought that the driving rules were the same all across the EU. We have the same fromat for licence permit even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence Maybe the fines are different, not sure.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  A moment's thought should show that's clearly wrong: they drive on the left in Ireland, Britain, Malta and Cyprus.
noneeeed 7y ago
I'm not sure if I misunderstand you, but that seems dangerous What if it changes to yellow just before you get to the line, are you supposed to slam on the breaks or risk getting a fine for going through on amber? In the UK the amber means "prepare to stop" but only if you can do so safely. If you are too close to stop then you should carry on through (which should be safe as all other lights should be red at this point).
- jmnicolas 7y ago
  Yellow lights are in a gray area (pun intended ;-) You're supposed to stop safely but you're supposed to have "mastery of your vehicle" at all time. So basically it all boils down to the mood of the cops. I would say it's not frequent to be fined for a yellow (never happened to me in more than 20 years of driving) but I'm pretty sure it would fail your driving license exam. I think (but I'm not sure) that traffic light cameras only catch red lights.
Ixio 7y ago
ainiriand said 'stop in safety conditions' which is also the law in France. The problem is proving you couldn't stop in safety conditions when you receive the fine. > Article R412-31 du Code de la route. Vous devez obligatoirement vous arrêter au feu orange, sauf si cela doit vous conduire à un danger.

ReptileMan 7y ago

It really depends on the country. Generally speaking yellow means stop if you are able to stop safely. There is also rule that even if you have green light you cannot enter intersection while it is congested and there are cars inside. So if you enter on yellow and the other traffic hit you it is their fault. If you cannot stop safely then you hit the pedal so that you clear the intersection asap since stopping to full stop in the middle of it is bad idea.