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I have the exact same feeling/thoughts. They spend a few decades not sharing any of the oil profits, and suddenly they want our cash for a promise (Aramco, ever

I have the exact same feeling/thoughts. They spend a few decades not sharing any of the oil profits, and suddenly they want our cash for a promise (Aramco, everything-Softbank invests in). Especially on the oil business, the sooner it dies out the better it will be for the planet (climate change) and humanity (wars, civil unrest). I will leave on the side the political (dictatorship) factor. I guess that manipulating oil price to hurt Russia and Venezuelan, also took a bite of Saudis wallet.

turk73 7y ago
IPO is the search for the final bag holders. It's been that way for years now.
- tekkk 7y ago
  Well, not really. That's a broad overstatement. Sure, for hype US tech companies but there are small companies without ridiculous over-pricing that use it to fund their growth as it was originally supposed to. But I agree that when the owners want to IPO it is often because it's beneficial time for them to sell (valuation is high vs the perceived risks). Or some VCs want to dump their stocks. Yet had you taken part in say Facebook's IPO that was considered over-hyped and held onto your stocks you would have made massive returns so, it's not all smoke and mirrors.
wayoutthere 7y ago
> I guess that manipulating oil price to hurt Russia and Venezuelan, also took a bite of Saudis wallet. Not really; Saudi Arabia has the highest quality and cheapest to extract oil sources in the world. They absolutely can afford to manipulate oil prices because they know with absolute certainty that their operational costs will be lower than other countries. They have trillions of dollars invested globally. Problem is that equity is turning into a suckers' game and they want shareholders to be left holding the bag now that green energy is about to kneecap the oil industry. No thanks!
- dahdum 7y ago
  They can’t afford to manipulate the market effectively, they may have the lowest production costs but they’ve already spent / allocated the profits.
  - babayega2 7y ago
    Indeed. That idea that they can manipulate the market easily is based on some data they have only access. I forgot a paper I saw one month ago speculating on the true capacity of SA production... The 11 billion baril per day is not a truly verified number. Beside, Aramco "is thought" to be financing all the rich life of the more than 4k princes in SA. So imagine the finances and budgeting of Aramco. It's though to be a hellish of...
- skeptical900067 7y ago
  Can anyone help me out in understanding how green energy is going to kneecap oil? I know the costs have gone down some, but iirc total oil energy produced/consumed is still orders of magnitude higher. Additionally, the margins on oil are still wide enough to absorb a lot of competition from wind, geothermal and solar.
rsync 7y ago
"I have the exact same feeling/thoughts. They spend a few decades not sharing any of the oil profits ..." This is a very simplistic (and incorrect) view of the economic relationship between the United States and S.A. First, the majority of Saudi oil is sold to Europe and Asia (not the United States) but it has always been denominated in US dollars - regardless of the purchaser. This enormous demand for US dollars in global trade that need not be related to the US at all has been to our great favor. Second, a tremendous amount of the US dollar surplus that SA generates is immediately recycled back into the hands of US industry - specifically, military industry. SA is a ready buyer of whatever new technologies our military industrial complex produces and we are paid a great sum of money for this military partnership. You personally may not be sharing in the profits but a tremendous economic benefit is realized by the United States and her technical and military industries.
- joel_ms 7y ago
  Last year, the US bought more than all of Europe. Asia is still the big buyer tho https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/09/16/who-buys-saudi-arabias-oil/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/09/16/who-buys-sau...
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  Very simplistic because I have a few minutes. The balances and (mostly political) use of Oil in the world makes it a perfect tool for manipulation. Plus the fact that we now (as a species) can accelerate the shift to cleaner energetic sources (sun-wind-waves)(not completely, yet) means that I find it odd to give some dictators a few more billion €¥$£ because they want to continue being a dark page in human history's and they need funding to continue in their bloody isolation. For me it is the political aspect of interfacing with such "Powers". UK, USA, Russia had cause more pain and blood that anyone else in the last few centuries. I cannot forget this. But they have (mostly) cleaned up their act (some less than others). As for the military industry, allow me to believe in a "Star Trek" humanity than a 'we got bigger-better-badder guns than you' future. Arms race benefit the weapons dealers and the warmongers, not the people who get burned by the napalms. These are hugely complex discussions that are caused and causing many issues on different domains/areas. It may be too simplistic, but let's end energy dependency, let's make more schools, and education will pave the road for a better future.

turk73 7y ago

IPO is the search for the final bag holders. It's been that way for years now.

tekkk 7y ago
Well, not really. That's a broad overstatement. Sure, for hype US tech companies but there are small companies without ridiculous over-pricing that use it to fund their growth as it was originally supposed to. But I agree that when the owners want to IPO it is often because it's beneficial time for them to sell (valuation is high vs the perceived risks). Or some VCs want to dump their stocks. Yet had you taken part in say Facebook's IPO that was considered over-hyped and held onto your stocks you would have made massive returns so, it's not all smoke and mirrors.

wayoutthere 7y ago

> I guess that manipulating oil price to hurt Russia and Venezuelan, also took a bite of Saudis wallet. Not really; Saudi Arabia has the highest quality and cheapest to extract oil sources in the world. They absolutely can afford to manipulate oil prices because they know with absolute certainty that their operational costs will be lower than other countries. They have trillions of dollars invested globally. Problem is that equity is turning into a suckers' game and they want shareholders to be left holding the bag now that green energy is about to kneecap the oil industry. No thanks!

dahdum 7y ago
They can’t afford to manipulate the market effectively, they may have the lowest production costs but they’ve already spent / allocated the profits.
- babayega2 7y ago
  Indeed. That idea that they can manipulate the market easily is based on some data they have only access. I forgot a paper I saw one month ago speculating on the true capacity of SA production... The 11 billion baril per day is not a truly verified number. Beside, Aramco "is thought" to be financing all the rich life of the more than 4k princes in SA. So imagine the finances and budgeting of Aramco. It's though to be a hellish of...
skeptical900067 7y ago
Can anyone help me out in understanding how green energy is going to kneecap oil? I know the costs have gone down some, but iirc total oil energy produced/consumed is still orders of magnitude higher. Additionally, the margins on oil are still wide enough to absorb a lot of competition from wind, geothermal and solar.

rsync 7y ago

"I have the exact same feeling/thoughts. They spend a few decades not sharing any of the oil profits ..." This is a very simplistic (and incorrect) view of the economic relationship between the United States and S.A. First, the majority of Saudi oil is sold to Europe and Asia (not the United States) but it has always been denominated in US dollars - regardless of the purchaser. This enormous demand for US dollars in global trade that need not be related to the US at all has been to our great favor. Second, a tremendous amount of the US dollar surplus that SA generates is immediately recycled back into the hands of US industry - specifically, military industry. SA is a ready buyer of whatever new technologies our military industrial complex produces and we are paid a great sum of money for this military partnership. You personally may not be sharing in the profits but a tremendous economic benefit is realized by the United States and her technical and military industries.

joel_ms 7y ago
Last year, the US bought more than all of Europe. Asia is still the big buyer tho https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/09/16/who-buys-saudi-arabias-oil/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/09/16/who-buys-sau...
HenryBemis 7y ago
Very simplistic because I have a few minutes. The balances and (mostly political) use of Oil in the world makes it a perfect tool for manipulation. Plus the fact that we now (as a species) can accelerate the shift to cleaner energetic sources (sun-wind-waves)(not completely, yet) means that I find it odd to give some dictators a few more billion €¥$£ because they want to continue being a dark page in human history's and they need funding to continue in their bloody isolation. For me it is the political aspect of interfacing with such "Powers". UK, USA, Russia had cause more pain and blood that anyone else in the last few centuries. I cannot forget this. But they have (mostly) cleaned up their act (some less than others). As for the military industry, allow me to believe in a "Star Trek" humanity than a 'we got bigger-better-badder guns than you' future. Arms race benefit the weapons dealers and the warmongers, not the people who get burned by the napalms. These are hugely complex discussions that are caused and causing many issues on different domains/areas. It may be too simplistic, but let's end energy dependency, let's make more schools, and education will pave the road for a better future.