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> Any software engineer that wants to build a _real career_ with _real progression_ will already know that changing jobs should be done by connections, not cold

> Any software engineer that wants to build a _real career_ with _real progression_ will already know that changing jobs should be done by connections, not cold-applying for jobs. If you can get referred, sure, do that. Why should that be a requirement to build a "real career" with "real progression" though? (And what does that even mean?) Earlier this year I interviewed with several companies. I was referred to some of them. For some others I didn't know anyone so I cold-messaged recruiters on LinkedIn. It worked just fine and I received similar offers in both cases. You're probably doing more harm than good by scaring people away from cold-applying.

jonny383 7y ago
>If you can get referred, sure, do that. Why should that be a requirement to build a "real career" with "real progression" though? (And what does that even mean?) It means moving away from being a shit-kicker coder to a more senior position at a fast pace. And eventually on to upper management. If you ever want to reach upper-management, you basically have two choices: A) You work from the ground up _at the same company, forever_, or B) You work at various companies, developing a network and getting recommended into higher positions from your networks.
- peferron 7y ago
  But you can have a "real career" without ending in management. In the Bay Area you can make absurd amounts of money as individual contributor. Not C-level of absurd, but high enough to be fine with earning less but enjoying your work more—money is only a means to an end, after all. Also, the only way I'd be interested in going into upper management would be as technical co-founder, which requires neither grinding levels nor job-hopping. Overall I think you're being a bit too reductive about what a "real career" means.
- chownie 7y ago
  What if you don't ever want to reach upper-management, or management at all? My skills are firmly technical, I don't have the desire nor the skillset for management. I'm just starting my career in software engineering, is there nowhere to go upward except management?

jonny383 7y ago

>If you can get referred, sure, do that. Why should that be a requirement to build a "real career" with "real progression" though? (And what does that even mean?) It means moving away from being a shit-kicker coder to a more senior position at a fast pace. And eventually on to upper management. If you ever want to reach upper-management, you basically have two choices: A) You work from the ground up _at the same company, forever_, or B) You work at various companies, developing a network and getting recommended into higher positions from your networks.

peferron 7y ago
But you can have a "real career" without ending in management. In the Bay Area you can make absurd amounts of money as individual contributor. Not C-level of absurd, but high enough to be fine with earning less but enjoying your work more—money is only a means to an end, after all. Also, the only way I'd be interested in going into upper management would be as technical co-founder, which requires neither grinding levels nor job-hopping. Overall I think you're being a bit too reductive about what a "real career" means.
chownie 7y ago
What if you don't ever want to reach upper-management, or management at all? My skills are firmly technical, I don't have the desire nor the skillset for management. I'm just starting my career in software engineering, is there nowhere to go upward except management?