7 ms·

Ask HN: As a developer, what attracts you to a platform?

15 points by ent101 7y ago

What is the most important factor that makes you excited about a platform? What makes you want to learn to build on a platform? Is it new APIs? Ease of development? access to new users?...

verdverm 7y ago
New paradigm that simplifies or accelerates development
- ent101 7y ago
  Thanks! Can you give an example of this, please?
  - verdverm 7y ago
    Golang, Cloud, Kubernetes, Apollokit.org, Hofstadter.io (self plug)... All for various reasons, but overall productivity gains / removing dumb, repetitive or boring things GSuite like collaboration when that came out Documentation is important too, as is good UX/DX
vishym 7y ago
When I choose a new platform, I try to assess how long the platform my survive. APIs, ease of development and ease of use are important too. But when I am going to spend many hours trying to learn a new platform, I try to as sure as possible that the platform is going to last for at least 5 years. Now it is easy to judge this for well established platforms like Linux, GitHub and software in the similar league but it is not so easy to judge this for new upcoming platforms offered by emerging technologies and startups. For the latter I look at what people are talking about the platform online, how much financial or community support it has got. For example, I would be more willing to put effort into learning a new open source platform with 1000+ GitHub stars and 100+ forks than I would be willing to learn a platform with 20+ GitHub stars. Similarly, I would be more willing to put effort into a new startup's platform that has got several millions of dollars of funding and good reputation than I would be willing to put into a platform with little to no funding. These are not perfect metrics but they make a good start.
- ent101 7y ago
  Interestingly enough, Microsoft Windows' strict backwards compatibility strategy seems to address this concern head-on which I think gives (gave?) developers a lot of confidence in the platform.
  - pmontra 7y ago
    Some developers got burned by Microsoft. Example: the ones who invested in Silverlight.
    - juststeve 7y ago
      Never go full Microsoft
    - richardknop 7y ago
      Was going to say this. Lot of devs invested time and effort to learn and master Silverlight platform and it turned out to be a bad investment.
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      Win32 has been with us for 25 years now, it's probably a reasonable assumption it will last another 25 years. You have to be picky, I wouldn't invest any time in Blazor right now, it's too early.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
Porthos9K 7y ago
I don't get excited about platforms. I get excited about people paying me to use platforms. If some asshole wanted to pay me $100/hr with time and a half for overtime to do COBOL on a System 360 I'd probably take the job.
- jstewartmobile 7y ago
  That shouldn't be too hard to arrange.
  - thijsvandien 7y ago
    Calling them an asshole might complicate matters. :)
    - jstewartmobile 7y ago
      asshole discount already factored in.
      - Porthos9K 7y ago
        If you're an asshole or try to hire me on as a 1099 contractor, I charge double. $100/hour is with the asshole penalty factored in.
pmontra 7y ago
Customers paying me and/or easier way to make money. Example from 25 years ago: HTML and CGI were a much easier way to build and distribute reasonable applications than the current desktop technologies. There were a lot of customers too. Example from 10 years ago: mobile apps are as difficult to create as desktop apps. I gave them a try and I stuck to web development. There are enough customers even nowadays. Example from 3 years ago: a new customer wanted to make me work with Python and Django. They are worse than Ruby and RoR (which I worked with since 2006) but OKish. I accepted to collaborate with them. At the same time another new customer was looking for Elixir developers. I looked into the language a couple of years before, better than Python for web development, I started to work with them too, with more enthusiasm except for the React frontend. The complexity is insane, worse than the desktop apps of the 90s. I also did some Rails web development in the last years, that was easier money than both Python and Elixir. I go Ruby for my pet projects: it's easier and quicker to code. My time matters.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Example from 10 years ago: mobile apps are as difficult to create as desktop apps. Desktop apps aren't difficult, at least no more difficult than a modern web stack.
  - toyg 7y ago
    He actually says exactly this further down: > except for the React frontend. The complexity is insane, worse than the desktop apps of the 90s.
jstewartmobile 7y ago
Not having the rug pulled out from under me. - Examples - C + OS APIs: They can't change things just for fun without inflicting serious self-harm. Golang: Really great about not breaking things. - Counterexamples - Mobile: New bureaucratic hurdles for every freakin' build! JavaScript+DOM: Caniuse.com hell. Elixir: Two languages in one, two different string types, and new, exciting, warnings with every release: warning: String.strip/1 is deprecated. Use String.trim/1 instead warning: Integer.to_char_list/2 is deprecated. Use Integer.to_charlist/2 instead I'm sure that extra underscore was just killing someone.
- pmontra 7y ago
  Yep, the char_list thing is funny and String.trim is a departure from Ruby, which trims with strip(). Anyway, what are the two languages Elixir is made of?
  - jstewartmobile 7y ago
    It's built on top of Erlang. Many base libs are just pass-throughs to Erlang.
Scarblac 7y ago
A feeling that the idea behind the framework is the right way to solve problems of existing frameworks, that it makes sense. Bonus points if it is popular, with some technologies there is a risk of going into a career dead end.
todaysAI 7y ago
Node.js excited me because I could code client/server with a single language. Seemed like a win especially when I started researching node.js and all signs were positive.
villgax 7y ago
A sandbox to test things out right, not a free-tier per se but a sandbox to try out every feature a couple of times.
muzani 7y ago
Mostly energy level and community/users. That usually determines how far a platform can go and how fast. It also makes it a heck more exciting to work, and even if it fails, leaves good memories. What I worry about is the WordPress/Stack Overflow effect. Where something becomes so popular it attracts the wrong crowd, either dumbing itself down too much or becoming elitist. It bloats itself, trying to expand into too many things and isn't good at any one thing.
juststeve 7y ago
Governance, and diversity of ideas and opinions.
buboard 7y ago
To a for-profit platform? Monetization potential. The most important criterion is how to make money in the platform, fast, before it turns to another walled garden you 're chained into.
afarrell 7y ago
The sense that the platform's interface (API, dashboard, Docs) create an interface of which I can gain a solid mental model. A "solid mental model" is knowledge which enables me to predict how the platform would my code/actions would make the platform behave, to feel confident in those predictions, and to be correct. Why does this draw me to a platform? Because it leads me to think that I'll be able to use it to solve business problems[1] despite having non-infinite mental abilities[2]. That includes the ability to communicate about timelines with stakeholders. What makes me think that about a platform? - Well-written documentation, with appropriate amounts of the 4 types of docs: tutorials, model explanations, how-to guides, and references.[3] - If applicable, docs which show how to write automated tests with the platform. - Interfaces which do a good job of containing complexity. The information they require me to learn "pays its rent" for the space it takes up in my mind. The modules are deep enough to have solved problems that would otherwise take up my time.[4] - An active community so that StackOverflow has a body of high-quality questions and answers. [1] see https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr... [2] see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303314 [3] see https://www.divio.com/blog/documentation/ https://www.divio.com/blog/documentation/ [4] see https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Software-Design-John-Ousterhout-ebook/dp/B07N1XLQ7D/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Software-Design-John-Ous... a concise book which is worth the £8 and 150 pages.
MichaelKovacs 7y ago
I think it's applicability first, then trust second. Applicability - The platform has to get me to some goal faster, easier, better than if I got at it alone. The goal can be anything. Ex. If I need to build messaging within my app I'll use Twilio, if I need distribution/users, I'll list on iOS/Android. Trust - It's all the signal that platform has staying power. Great APIs and docs means they care and are investing in developers, years in existence, community, amount of end users, pass history of doing what they say relative to roadmap, etc. I think it's weighing all these tings before you start to build. maybe related, I think this is the best article on "platform" , Marc Andreessen 2007 - https://pmarchive.com/three_kinds_of_platforms_you_meet_on_the_internet.html https://pmarchive.com/three_kinds_of_platforms_you_meet_on_t...
kitsunesoba 7y ago
The extent to which the platform’s SDK is “batteries included”. If I find myself importing a lot of third party libs or writing a lot of my own stuff to fill gaps I’m not going to be happy. Unless the project in question is doing something esoteric, my time should be spent writing the actual application, not writing UI widgets and other incidental bits and bobs.
mips_avatar 7y ago
Getting me to look at the platform requires the platform solving a problem I have. Not running away requires good documentation (tutorials, how to's, and technical reference)
stevenwliao 7y ago
- Makes development/deployment simpler - Tested in production - Activity that gives the impression that it will be maintained
robbyt 7y ago
A public roadmap, minimal exit friction (how quickly can I switch to something else), and a real SLA (if hosted).
preslavrachev 7y ago
How boring it is. Really. The more boring a platform, the more chance it has to withstand emotional hype-and-dip cycles.
quickthrower2 7y ago
If overall they are making my life easier and solving pain points of a previous platform, with a net reduction in pain overall compared to the best that is available today.

15 points by ent101 7y ago

What is the most important factor that makes you excited about a platform? What makes you want to learn to build on a platform? Is it new APIs? Ease of development? access to new users?...

verdverm 7y ago

New paradigm that simplifies or accelerates development

ent101 7y ago
Thanks! Can you give an example of this, please?
- verdverm 7y ago
  Golang, Cloud, Kubernetes, Apollokit.org, Hofstadter.io (self plug)... All for various reasons, but overall productivity gains / removing dumb, repetitive or boring things GSuite like collaboration when that came out Documentation is important too, as is good UX/DX

vishym 7y ago

When I choose a new platform, I try to assess how long the platform my survive. APIs, ease of development and ease of use are important too. But when I am going to spend many hours trying to learn a new platform, I try to as sure as possible that the platform is going to last for at least 5 years. Now it is easy to judge this for well established platforms like Linux, GitHub and software in the similar league but it is not so easy to judge this for new upcoming platforms offered by emerging technologies and startups. For the latter I look at what people are talking about the platform online, how much financial or community support it has got. For example, I would be more willing to put effort into learning a new open source platform with 1000+ GitHub stars and 100+ forks than I would be willing to learn a platform with 20+ GitHub stars. Similarly, I would be more willing to put effort into a new startup's platform that has got several millions of dollars of funding and good reputation than I would be willing to put into a platform with little to no funding. These are not perfect metrics but they make a good start.

ent101 7y ago
Interestingly enough, Microsoft Windows' strict backwards compatibility strategy seems to address this concern head-on which I think gives (gave?) developers a lot of confidence in the platform.
- pmontra 7y ago
  Some developers got burned by Microsoft. Example: the ones who invested in Silverlight.
  - juststeve 7y ago
    Never go full Microsoft
  - richardknop 7y ago
    Was going to say this. Lot of devs invested time and effort to learn and master Silverlight platform and it turned out to be a bad investment.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Win32 has been with us for 25 years now, it's probably a reasonable assumption it will last another 25 years. You have to be picky, I wouldn't invest any time in Blazor right now, it's too early.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

Porthos9K 7y ago

I don't get excited about platforms. I get excited about people paying me to use platforms. If some asshole wanted to pay me $100/hr with time and a half for overtime to do COBOL on a System 360 I'd probably take the job.

jstewartmobile 7y ago
That shouldn't be too hard to arrange.
- thijsvandien 7y ago
  Calling them an asshole might complicate matters. :)
  - jstewartmobile 7y ago
    asshole discount already factored in.
    - Porthos9K 7y ago
      If you're an asshole or try to hire me on as a 1099 contractor, I charge double. $100/hour is with the asshole penalty factored in.

pmontra 7y ago

Customers paying me and/or easier way to make money. Example from 25 years ago: HTML and CGI were a much easier way to build and distribute reasonable applications than the current desktop technologies. There were a lot of customers too. Example from 10 years ago: mobile apps are as difficult to create as desktop apps. I gave them a try and I stuck to web development. There are enough customers even nowadays. Example from 3 years ago: a new customer wanted to make me work with Python and Django. They are worse than Ruby and RoR (which I worked with since 2006) but OKish. I accepted to collaborate with them. At the same time another new customer was looking for Elixir developers. I looked into the language a couple of years before, better than Python for web development, I started to work with them too, with more enthusiasm except for the React frontend. The complexity is insane, worse than the desktop apps of the 90s. I also did some Rails web development in the last years, that was easier money than both Python and Elixir. I go Ruby for my pet projects: it's easier and quicker to code. My time matters.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
Example from 10 years ago: mobile apps are as difficult to create as desktop apps. Desktop apps aren't difficult, at least no more difficult than a modern web stack.
- toyg 7y ago
  He actually says exactly this further down: > except for the React frontend. The complexity is insane, worse than the desktop apps of the 90s.

jstewartmobile 7y ago

Not having the rug pulled out from under me. - Examples - C + OS APIs: They can't change things just for fun without inflicting serious self-harm. Golang: Really great about not breaking things. - Counterexamples - Mobile: New bureaucratic hurdles for every freakin' build! JavaScript+DOM: Caniuse.com hell. Elixir: Two languages in one, two different string types, and new, exciting, warnings with every release: warning: String.strip/1 is deprecated. Use String.trim/1 instead warning: Integer.to_char_list/2 is deprecated. Use Integer.to_charlist/2 instead I'm sure that extra underscore was just killing someone.

pmontra 7y ago
Yep, the char_list thing is funny and String.trim is a departure from Ruby, which trims with strip(). Anyway, what are the two languages Elixir is made of?
- jstewartmobile 7y ago
  It's built on top of Erlang. Many base libs are just pass-throughs to Erlang.

Scarblac 7y ago

A feeling that the idea behind the framework is the right way to solve problems of existing frameworks, that it makes sense. Bonus points if it is popular, with some technologies there is a risk of going into a career dead end.

todaysAI 7y ago

Node.js excited me because I could code client/server with a single language. Seemed like a win especially when I started researching node.js and all signs were positive.

villgax 7y ago

A sandbox to test things out right, not a free-tier per se but a sandbox to try out every feature a couple of times.

muzani 7y ago

Mostly energy level and community/users. That usually determines how far a platform can go and how fast. It also makes it a heck more exciting to work, and even if it fails, leaves good memories. What I worry about is the WordPress/Stack Overflow effect. Where something becomes so popular it attracts the wrong crowd, either dumbing itself down too much or becoming elitist. It bloats itself, trying to expand into too many things and isn't good at any one thing.

juststeve 7y ago

Governance, and diversity of ideas and opinions.

buboard 7y ago

To a for-profit platform? Monetization potential. The most important criterion is how to make money in the platform, fast, before it turns to another walled garden you 're chained into.

afarrell 7y ago

The sense that the platform's interface (API, dashboard, Docs) create an interface of which I can gain a solid mental model. A "solid mental model" is knowledge which enables me to predict how the platform would my code/actions would make the platform behave, to feel confident in those predictions, and to be correct. Why does this draw me to a platform? Because it leads me to think that I'll be able to use it to solve business problems[1] despite having non-infinite mental abilities[2]. That includes the ability to communicate about timelines with stakeholders. What makes me think that about a platform? - Well-written documentation, with appropriate amounts of the 4 types of docs: tutorials, model explanations, how-to guides, and references.[3] - If applicable, docs which show how to write automated tests with the platform. - Interfaces which do a good job of containing complexity. The information they require me to learn "pays its rent" for the space it takes up in my mind. The modules are deep enough to have solved problems that would otherwise take up my time.[4] - An active community so that StackOverflow has a body of high-quality questions and answers. [1] see https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr... [2] see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303314 [3] see https://www.divio.com/blog/documentation/ https://www.divio.com/blog/documentation/ [4] see https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Software-Design-John-Ousterhout-ebook/dp/B07N1XLQ7D/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Software-Design-John-Ous... a concise book which is worth the £8 and 150 pages.

MichaelKovacs 7y ago

I think it's applicability first, then trust second. Applicability - The platform has to get me to some goal faster, easier, better than if I got at it alone. The goal can be anything. Ex. If I need to build messaging within my app I'll use Twilio, if I need distribution/users, I'll list on iOS/Android. Trust - It's all the signal that platform has staying power. Great APIs and docs means they care and are investing in developers, years in existence, community, amount of end users, pass history of doing what they say relative to roadmap, etc. I think it's weighing all these tings before you start to build. maybe related, I think this is the best article on "platform" , Marc Andreessen 2007 - https://pmarchive.com/three_kinds_of_platforms_you_meet_on_the_internet.html https://pmarchive.com/three_kinds_of_platforms_you_meet_on_t...

kitsunesoba 7y ago

The extent to which the platform’s SDK is “batteries included”. If I find myself importing a lot of third party libs or writing a lot of my own stuff to fill gaps I’m not going to be happy. Unless the project in question is doing something esoteric, my time should be spent writing the actual application, not writing UI widgets and other incidental bits and bobs.

mips_avatar 7y ago

Getting me to look at the platform requires the platform solving a problem I have. Not running away requires good documentation (tutorials, how to's, and technical reference)

stevenwliao 7y ago

- Makes development/deployment simpler - Tested in production - Activity that gives the impression that it will be maintained

robbyt 7y ago

A public roadmap, minimal exit friction (how quickly can I switch to something else), and a real SLA (if hosted).

preslavrachev 7y ago

How boring it is. Really. The more boring a platform, the more chance it has to withstand emotional hype-and-dip cycles.

quickthrower2 7y ago

If overall they are making my life easier and solving pain points of a previous platform, with a net reduction in pain overall compared to the best that is available today.