4 ms·

It's been decades and literally everyone in multiple industries is still refusing to admit they're throwing money after a lost cause? I won't say that's impossi

by geofft 7y ago

It's been decades and literally everyone in multiple industries is still refusing to admit they're throwing money after a lost cause? I won't say that's impossible, but the entire idea behind capitalism is that this happens rarely. Eventually someone will realize they can make more profit by not paying for anti-piracy, right?

arvinsim 7y ago
I think some companies are just looking for the appearance of fighting and succeeding against piracy.
neltnerb 7y ago
They cannot possibly actually think DRM stops anything. Maybe they don't get that it's convenience that drives sales rather than the content itself. I just rented Spiderman on Amazon streaming for like $6, about the same as I remember video rental used to be. I'm certain I could have pirated it if Amazon streaming had not worked on Linux. It was slightly easier and slightly more ethical feeling to rent it from Amazon, so I did. I have seen a bit of a pattern where content distributors start out by cranking the DRM to 11 and then year over year get less and less worried about it. I guess they realize over time that the DRM isn't stopping anything, who knows, maybe they're using it to provide a PR argument that they're trying their best to push some other agenda. But I think they know that it's the distribution method rather than the encryption that influences buying decisions unless they magically stop all casual piracy. Be at least as easy as casual piracy?
tjalfi 7y ago
Baen Books[0] and Tor[1] don't use DRM. [0] https://www.baen.com/t-drm https://www.baen.com/t-drm [1] https://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-books-uk-drm-free-one-year-later/ https://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-books-uk-drm-free-one-yea...
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  Baen Books is one publisher who gets it, and makes a profit doing so. Some of their back-catalogue is available for free on-line, such as David Weber's Empire from the Ashes. Complete trilogy: http://www.baencd.freedoors.org/Books/Empire%20From%20the%20Ashes/Empire_From_the_Ashes.htm http://www.baencd.freedoors.org/Books/Empire%20From%20the%20... (hard sci-fi)
chillfox 7y ago
The entire theory of capitalism is that everyone always acts rationally and in their own interest. In reality, humans are frequently irrational and acts against their own interests. Basically the foundations upon which capitalism stands are cracked and have always been craked. Regulation is what usually fills out those cracks to prevent the entire thing from crumbling.
- barney54 7y ago
  This view misses much of what has happened in economics since 1980. https://reason.com/2019/10/20/the-third-lesson-of-economics/ https://reason.com/2019/10/20/the-third-lesson-of-economics/
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Reason (FEE / Atlas Group / Mont Pelerin Society / Koch Network) are feeding their own interest here and are hardly indifferent. Or correct.
- alvah 7y ago
  The theory of capitalism is that the means of production are privately owned (as opposed to government owned). What you're talking about is part of economic theory, not the same as capitalism at all.
mdpopescu 7y ago
When companies are inefficient for a long time, it's usually because they managed to prevent competition. In this case, they successfully managed to bully the whole world, using the US government, into adopting rules created by US companies. (The idea that a sovereign country - say India - is forced to police 1.5 billion people to make sure they don't use Mickey Mouse in ways that would upset a company in a foreign country is insane. We don't normally care if people in Nigeria cook their leftovers in ways that upset a famous Italian pizzeria.) --- Every time you find a problem with capitalism, stop and look again: you will find state intervention in the market, which is the opposite of capitalism. (Free trade between the involved parties, without the intervention of others.) In this case, the problem starts at the root: copyright is by definition a state intervention in the market. It cannot exist in a free market, because it mandates that someone prevents you from using your own resources as you see fit (namely, copying a DVD you own on a computer you own, using electricity you're paying for). Kinsella's "Against Intellectual Property" is probably the best resource point out the contradiction between Imaginary Property and the free market.
- geofft 7y ago
  How do you prevent state intervention in a free market? What prevents the capital-possessing incumbents in a market from saying, "We need a government and an armed police force to enforce intellectual property laws"?
  - mdpopescu 7y ago
    Competition. You hire a different police force to protect your property. Of course, if one entity has a monopoly over the legitimate use of force in an area, you're in trouble.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      That sounds a lot like warring oligarchical or dictatorial nation states with extra steps in practice.
      - 7y ago

by geofft 7y ago

arvinsim 7y ago

I think some companies are just looking for the appearance of fighting and succeeding against piracy.

neltnerb 7y ago

They cannot possibly actually think DRM stops anything. Maybe they don't get that it's convenience that drives sales rather than the content itself. I just rented Spiderman on Amazon streaming for like $6, about the same as I remember video rental used to be. I'm certain I could have pirated it if Amazon streaming had not worked on Linux. It was slightly easier and slightly more ethical feeling to rent it from Amazon, so I did. I have seen a bit of a pattern where content distributors start out by cranking the DRM to 11 and then year over year get less and less worried about it. I guess they realize over time that the DRM isn't stopping anything, who knows, maybe they're using it to provide a PR argument that they're trying their best to push some other agenda. But I think they know that it's the distribution method rather than the encryption that influences buying decisions unless they magically stop all casual piracy. Be at least as easy as casual piracy?

tjalfi 7y ago

Baen Books[0] and Tor[1] don't use DRM. [0] https://www.baen.com/t-drm https://www.baen.com/t-drm [1] https://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-books-uk-drm-free-one-year-later/ https://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-books-uk-drm-free-one-yea...

Freak_NL 7y ago
Baen Books is one publisher who gets it, and makes a profit doing so. Some of their back-catalogue is available for free on-line, such as David Weber's Empire from the Ashes. Complete trilogy: http://www.baencd.freedoors.org/Books/Empire%20From%20the%20Ashes/Empire_From_the_Ashes.htm http://www.baencd.freedoors.org/Books/Empire%20From%20the%20... (hard sci-fi)

chillfox 7y ago

The entire theory of capitalism is that everyone always acts rationally and in their own interest. In reality, humans are frequently irrational and acts against their own interests. Basically the foundations upon which capitalism stands are cracked and have always been craked. Regulation is what usually fills out those cracks to prevent the entire thing from crumbling.

barney54 7y ago
This view misses much of what has happened in economics since 1980. https://reason.com/2019/10/20/the-third-lesson-of-economics/ https://reason.com/2019/10/20/the-third-lesson-of-economics/
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Reason (FEE / Atlas Group / Mont Pelerin Society / Koch Network) are feeding their own interest here and are hardly indifferent. Or correct.
alvah 7y ago
The theory of capitalism is that the means of production are privately owned (as opposed to government owned). What you're talking about is part of economic theory, not the same as capitalism at all.

mdpopescu 7y ago

When companies are inefficient for a long time, it's usually because they managed to prevent competition. In this case, they successfully managed to bully the whole world, using the US government, into adopting rules created by US companies. (The idea that a sovereign country - say India - is forced to police 1.5 billion people to make sure they don't use Mickey Mouse in ways that would upset a company in a foreign country is insane. We don't normally care if people in Nigeria cook their leftovers in ways that upset a famous Italian pizzeria.) --- Every time you find a problem with capitalism, stop and look again: you will find state intervention in the market, which is the opposite of capitalism. (Free trade between the involved parties, without the intervention of others.) In this case, the problem starts at the root: copyright is by definition a state intervention in the market. It cannot exist in a free market, because it mandates that someone prevents you from using your own resources as you see fit (namely, copying a DVD you own on a computer you own, using electricity you're paying for). Kinsella's "Against Intellectual Property" is probably the best resource point out the contradiction between Imaginary Property and the free market.

geofft 7y ago
How do you prevent state intervention in a free market? What prevents the capital-possessing incumbents in a market from saying, "We need a government and an armed police force to enforce intellectual property laws"?
- mdpopescu 7y ago
  Competition. You hire a different police force to protect your property. Of course, if one entity has a monopoly over the legitimate use of force in an area, you're in trouble.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    That sounds a lot like warring oligarchical or dictatorial nation states with extra steps in practice.
    - 7y ago