4 ms·

As a business owner and former SV software engineer that regularly hires former convicts, I can speak to this a bit. Hiring ex-cons will make your life harder.

As a business owner and former SV software engineer that regularly hires former convicts, I can speak to this a bit. Hiring ex-cons will make your life harder. At least it has made mine. Many times, ex-cons aren't given the practical skills to get by as an adult. They may not have a bank account, understand taxes, have a driver's license and so many other practical skills. They're also more likely to steal from you, hurt or harass other employees and more. So why hire ex-cons? Well I don't on purpose, I just don't do background checks. I have everyone on a paid trial their first week. We make the decision based on work. I only find out later. Why do I do this? Because I want to live in this type of world and it's good for my business. My business only cares about the work being done, not the personal history of the employees. Hiring ex-cons will create more work for you but it's led to me finding some of my best employees. I think it's easy to say we should hire felons but it's not easy for businesses to do this. Prison should be adult school instead of gang summer camp.

beebs93 7y ago
> They're also more likely to steal from you, hurt or harass other employees and more. Not disagreeing with you here as I have zero experience with this, but in your experience are there any attributes that ex-cons typically exhibit better than the other employees?
- dumbfoundded 7y ago
  I'd just say it's generally harder. Anyone exposed to the American justice system probably has a higher rate of mental health issues, combined with the financial stress most ex-cons face. It's not like people who go to prison develop some new bad behavior. Anyone under these burdens is more likely to exhibit negative behaviors.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
Last time I moved I talked a little with the movers and a lot of them had been in jail before. The leader told me that there definitely is a problem with a lot of ex-cons having problems with authority, reliability and rules. I commend you for hiring them anyway. For a single business it's probably better to not hire any although this is a loss for the whole society.
- synt4x1k0 7y ago
  Using "Ex-Cons" as a blanket term is pretty dehumanizing, in my opinion. People go to jail for different reasons. Would you assume that a person who went to prison for child molestation would have the same antisocial personality traits as someone who was convicted for multiple DUIs? These are human beings, and they shouldn't be described in the same manner as insects in a David Attenborough documentary.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    You shouldn't be going after me for just using a word you don't approve of especially since I am very sympathetic too them. I don't know what the movers did to get into jail but as far as the job prospects it doesn't matter anyway. What I was told is that a lot of companies won't hire you as soon as you have a record, no matter what for, be it child molestation or DUI.
    - dumbfoundded 7y ago
      For most companies, it's an automated check and automated rejection. No human ever sees what they did and makes a judgment.
  - OJFord 7y ago
    Using 'human beings' as a blanket term is pretty dehumanising, in my opinion. 'ex-con' means nothing more than 'has been convicted [of something]'. There are many different types of insect too you know.
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Do you have any concerns about liability for not doing background checks?
- learc83 7y ago
  Plenty of businesses don't do background checks. Huge national restaurant chains often don't. Unless your employees are working with children or you are in a highly regulated industry I wouldn't worry about it.
  - dumbfoundded 7y ago
    Yeah, we're a light manufacturing warehouse. We're zoned for hemp & cannabis. We don't have any machinery that could hurt anyone (unless you open it and fuck with the wiring). Our work is simple, but repetitive and boring. People can listen to music or podcasts or just talk. We're kind of the ideal company for an ex-con in a lot of ways.
bane 7y ago
Growing up, my parents owned a small business that was staffed in the production department almost entirely by ex-convicts. There was both a measure of altruism, charity, and good business in their thinking -- the convicts had done their time and needed help, and were often cheaper to hire than regulars. My parents wouldn't hire violent offenders, and most of the people they employed had some kind of drug problem at one time or another. Most of these guys were decent, friendly, hard working, and then had absolutely inscrutable abilities to go completely off the rails from time to time. Very few of them stayed employed for more than a couple of years and many of them ended up back in prison. I remember more than one guy getting hired, working their tail off, turning their life around and so on. And then one day going on a PCP fueled naked run through the center of town, or suddenly cashing their paycheck and immediately spending it all on cocaine while their kids went hungry. One guy went so far as to have his hand mangled in a piece of equipment so he could get his hands on legal opiates, after 10 years of rock solid employment and clean living. On occasion, my father would also catch them involved in absolutely bizarre shenanigans. I remember one day my father came home absolutely fuming because one of his guys had set up a weekend shop (when the business was normally closed) out of my father's storefront selling both counterfeit watches and postage stamps to local refugees. How he had hit on that as a business angle and why he decided to do it out of my parent's business is a mystery that has never been explained in any meaningful way. Money management was a huge problem. My parents were approached almost weekly for pay advances, loans and whatnot. My father often traded extra side jobs patching up the building or whatnot for the pay instead of just giving it out -- it was assumed the guys were using the early pay in some irresponsible way. While this all sounds like an absolutely nightmare, it curiously wasn't. My father made it clear that when guys were on the job they behaved, they showed up on time and they'd be payed on time. Any deviation from it and they'd be send home and not payed for the hours they would have worked. These events were maybe once or twice a year and most of the time the guys were just there putting in their shift and were otherwise fun to have around.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  And the more hours he had them working, the fewer hours they had for drug runs.
- 7y ago
manigandham 7y ago
This is nice to hear. I've come to know a lot of ex-cons from minor crimes to life sentences. They're just as varied as any other group of people and you're right that they can either be incredibly solid assets or crazy liabilities. There's something about the crucible of prison life that amplifies personalities (similar to other intense life situations). Many get ground down by the system but there are a few who become better through the challenge. They've paid their debts but it's unfortunate that society turns it into eternal servitude. Most records other than the truly egregious should be sealed. It's strange how society shuns them continuously and provides no support, but then blames them from not integrating perfectly. It's a vicious cycle.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  > Most records other than the truly egregious should be sealed. This is a big one. 99% of the time employees should not be able to know someones criminal history unless it is critical for the job and that data should be proxyed via police. For example if you want to work at a school then they can check with the police that you do not have any history making it unsafe for you to work with children but the coffee shop has no access to this data.

beebs93 7y ago

> They're also more likely to steal from you, hurt or harass other employees and more. Not disagreeing with you here as I have zero experience with this, but in your experience are there any attributes that ex-cons typically exhibit better than the other employees?

dumbfoundded 7y ago
I'd just say it's generally harder. Anyone exposed to the American justice system probably has a higher rate of mental health issues, combined with the financial stress most ex-cons face. It's not like people who go to prison develop some new bad behavior. Anyone under these burdens is more likely to exhibit negative behaviors.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

Last time I moved I talked a little with the movers and a lot of them had been in jail before. The leader told me that there definitely is a problem with a lot of ex-cons having problems with authority, reliability and rules. I commend you for hiring them anyway. For a single business it's probably better to not hire any although this is a loss for the whole society.

synt4x1k0 7y ago
Using "Ex-Cons" as a blanket term is pretty dehumanizing, in my opinion. People go to jail for different reasons. Would you assume that a person who went to prison for child molestation would have the same antisocial personality traits as someone who was convicted for multiple DUIs? These are human beings, and they shouldn't be described in the same manner as insects in a David Attenborough documentary.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  You shouldn't be going after me for just using a word you don't approve of especially since I am very sympathetic too them. I don't know what the movers did to get into jail but as far as the job prospects it doesn't matter anyway. What I was told is that a lot of companies won't hire you as soon as you have a record, no matter what for, be it child molestation or DUI.
  - dumbfoundded 7y ago
    For most companies, it's an automated check and automated rejection. No human ever sees what they did and makes a judgment.
- OJFord 7y ago
  Using 'human beings' as a blanket term is pretty dehumanising, in my opinion. 'ex-con' means nothing more than 'has been convicted [of something]'. There are many different types of insect too you know.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

Do you have any concerns about liability for not doing background checks?

learc83 7y ago
Plenty of businesses don't do background checks. Huge national restaurant chains often don't. Unless your employees are working with children or you are in a highly regulated industry I wouldn't worry about it.
- dumbfoundded 7y ago
  Yeah, we're a light manufacturing warehouse. We're zoned for hemp & cannabis. We don't have any machinery that could hurt anyone (unless you open it and fuck with the wiring). Our work is simple, but repetitive and boring. People can listen to music or podcasts or just talk. We're kind of the ideal company for an ex-con in a lot of ways.

bane 7y ago

Growing up, my parents owned a small business that was staffed in the production department almost entirely by ex-convicts. There was both a measure of altruism, charity, and good business in their thinking -- the convicts had done their time and needed help, and were often cheaper to hire than regulars. My parents wouldn't hire violent offenders, and most of the people they employed had some kind of drug problem at one time or another. Most of these guys were decent, friendly, hard working, and then had absolutely inscrutable abilities to go completely off the rails from time to time. Very few of them stayed employed for more than a couple of years and many of them ended up back in prison. I remember more than one guy getting hired, working their tail off, turning their life around and so on. And then one day going on a PCP fueled naked run through the center of town, or suddenly cashing their paycheck and immediately spending it all on cocaine while their kids went hungry. One guy went so far as to have his hand mangled in a piece of equipment so he could get his hands on legal opiates, after 10 years of rock solid employment and clean living. On occasion, my father would also catch them involved in absolutely bizarre shenanigans. I remember one day my father came home absolutely fuming because one of his guys had set up a weekend shop (when the business was normally closed) out of my father's storefront selling both counterfeit watches and postage stamps to local refugees. How he had hit on that as a business angle and why he decided to do it out of my parent's business is a mystery that has never been explained in any meaningful way. Money management was a huge problem. My parents were approached almost weekly for pay advances, loans and whatnot. My father often traded extra side jobs patching up the building or whatnot for the pay instead of just giving it out -- it was assumed the guys were using the early pay in some irresponsible way. While this all sounds like an absolutely nightmare, it curiously wasn't. My father made it clear that when guys were on the job they behaved, they showed up on time and they'd be payed on time. Any deviation from it and they'd be send home and not payed for the hours they would have worked. These events were maybe once or twice a year and most of the time the guys were just there putting in their shift and were otherwise fun to have around.

lonelappde 7y ago
And the more hours he had them working, the fewer hours they had for drug runs.
7y ago

manigandham 7y ago

This is nice to hear. I've come to know a lot of ex-cons from minor crimes to life sentences. They're just as varied as any other group of people and you're right that they can either be incredibly solid assets or crazy liabilities. There's something about the crucible of prison life that amplifies personalities (similar to other intense life situations). Many get ground down by the system but there are a few who become better through the challenge. They've paid their debts but it's unfortunate that society turns it into eternal servitude. Most records other than the truly egregious should be sealed. It's strange how society shuns them continuously and provides no support, but then blames them from not integrating perfectly. It's a vicious cycle.

baroffoos 7y ago
> Most records other than the truly egregious should be sealed. This is a big one. 99% of the time employees should not be able to know someones criminal history unless it is critical for the job and that data should be proxyed via police. For example if you want to work at a school then they can check with the police that you do not have any history making it unsafe for you to work with children but the coffee shop has no access to this data.