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Surely you mean "emotional hobby" instead of "emotional labour"? After all, nobody paid you, nobody asked you to work, and I'm sure many didn't really appreciat

by tomp 7y ago

Surely you mean "emotional hobby" instead of "emotional labour"? After all, nobody paid you, nobody asked you to work, and I'm sure many didn't really appreciate your "work" and maybe even thought energy (both your own, and of all other 30 people) could more productively be spent doing other things. That's the whole problem with this idea. Proclamations of emotional "work" are actually just passive-aggressive pleas for others to affirm one's values. Well, people value different things, we might just need to accept that.

tenaciousDaniel 7y ago
And when this idea is discussed, it's talked about like it's some sort of societal issue. Ok so it's an issue...what's the solution? What should have happened in the above scenario that didn't? I really don't understand it. You dealt with something that weighed on you. Okay? Life can be like that sometimes. What an interesting revelation [rolls eyes].
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  You know how Japanese train conductors have that point-and-call system? Well what these discussions are about are like point-and-call. They're not pointing at the people on the track (society). They're pointing in directions, and at the train, and calling out what is happening. They're pointing out these things going on around them so that everyone is aware of them, so that people will think, act, and react. Hopefully, the end result is better overall outcomes. I think we still have a long way to go in figuring out how to have these discussions in a way that's more productive, but at least they're happening.
- sfink 7y ago
  ...it was a good example of the exact topic of the article? One that illustrated it in a way that was likely to be familiar to people here. Especially since it involved a common work situation rather than home life. If that's not worthy of posting in a comment thread, what is? Where is the implication that you have to pose - and maybe even solve! - some problem in order for your comment to be worth posting? Perhaps you are holding onto the definition the article is claiming is incorrect? Because that definition is associated with systemic issues. And your followup comment only makes sense to me in that light.
peterwwillis 7y ago
So you don't consider people who volunteer to build houses for the homeless as labor? (I am not comparing myself to them!) What I experienced was the same level of stress as after moving a two bedroom apartment in one day. Call that what you will. About 10 people privately messaged me that they appreciated my effort in keeping the conversation civil and helping everyone be heard. > Proclamations of emotional "work" are actually just passive-aggressive pleas for others to affirm one's values. I could honestly give a shit what anyone thinks of my values. But I do want everyone to treat everyone else with respect, to try to understand each other, and have compassion for each other. That is my plea: please care about people.
aaronharnly 7y ago
As AgentME mentioned in their comment, if peterwwillis had seen a server without a designated owner whose metrics were teetering into an unhealthy state, and jumped in to stabilize it, wouldn't that be praiseworthy – and clearly work, not a "hobby"? There's nothing silly or unproductive about stabilizing social/emotional situations in a work context. Indeed, your own response underscores how complicated and difficult, and often underappreciated, such work can be.

by tomp 7y ago

tenaciousDaniel 7y ago

And when this idea is discussed, it's talked about like it's some sort of societal issue. Ok so it's an issue...what's the solution? What should have happened in the above scenario that didn't? I really don't understand it. You dealt with something that weighed on you. Okay? Life can be like that sometimes. What an interesting revelation [rolls eyes].

peterwwillis 7y ago
You know how Japanese train conductors have that point-and-call system? Well what these discussions are about are like point-and-call. They're not pointing at the people on the track (society). They're pointing in directions, and at the train, and calling out what is happening. They're pointing out these things going on around them so that everyone is aware of them, so that people will think, act, and react. Hopefully, the end result is better overall outcomes. I think we still have a long way to go in figuring out how to have these discussions in a way that's more productive, but at least they're happening.
sfink 7y ago
...it was a good example of the exact topic of the article? One that illustrated it in a way that was likely to be familiar to people here. Especially since it involved a common work situation rather than home life. If that's not worthy of posting in a comment thread, what is? Where is the implication that you have to pose - and maybe even solve! - some problem in order for your comment to be worth posting? Perhaps you are holding onto the definition the article is claiming is incorrect? Because that definition is associated with systemic issues. And your followup comment only makes sense to me in that light.

peterwwillis 7y ago

So you don't consider people who volunteer to build houses for the homeless as labor? (I am not comparing myself to them!) What I experienced was the same level of stress as after moving a two bedroom apartment in one day. Call that what you will. About 10 people privately messaged me that they appreciated my effort in keeping the conversation civil and helping everyone be heard. > Proclamations of emotional "work" are actually just passive-aggressive pleas for others to affirm one's values. I could honestly give a shit what anyone thinks of my values. But I do want everyone to treat everyone else with respect, to try to understand each other, and have compassion for each other. That is my plea: please care about people.

aaronharnly 7y ago

As AgentME mentioned in their comment, if peterwwillis had seen a server without a designated owner whose metrics were teetering into an unhealthy state, and jumped in to stabilize it, wouldn't that be praiseworthy – and clearly work, not a "hobby"? There's nothing silly or unproductive about stabilizing social/emotional situations in a work context. Indeed, your own response underscores how complicated and difficult, and often underappreciated, such work can be.