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Hey guys always made my brain think too much about inplications when i said it to a mix gendered group. Granted, English is my second language and inadvertently

Hey guys always made my brain think too much about inplications when i said it to a mix gendered group. Granted, English is my second language and inadvertently imitated others. When in Rome do as romans do. I took it as is, when i saw women adressing a group of women with hey guys. I thought that folks is a coloquial term. I wish there was a proper guidebook to all these phrases, how they came in use and what is expected. The small talk is like a dynamited field. There should be some guidelines

Fellshard 7y ago
Especially in English nowadays: Some people intentionally attempt to introduce more meaning into a phrase than is actually meant in general usage of the phrase, just so that they can be disruptive in this way. Others aren't attempting to be disruptive, but are misguidedly raising alarms thinking they are being helpful towards others, when in fact no-one is actually offended in the first place. All this to say: you shouldn't have to worry about sensitivity for most of those kinds of phrases, except where someone is trying to make you say what you didn't want to say. Call it out when it happens and move on; don't apologize, and don't allow people to read malice into your intentions that you never had.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  This is just really bad career advice, but also you do see how your advice is logically problematic, right? In this model, nobody can ever have a valid complaint, if you never intend malice or offend an existing party. Example: If there are no black people in your office, and you use the N word a million times, and I complain, am I wrong to complain because there were no black people around to get offended or because you didn't intend malice? What's the point of caring whether someone uses a racial slur? Is it just because "that's what we're supposed to do" ? Or is there a deeper problem that we're trying to address?
  - Fellshard 7y ago
    Perhaps I would have considered that more relevant a couple decades ago. In the context of the types of phrases being discussed in this thread, I'd err well on the side of assuming the speaker's intention is not malicious, unless a pattern of other kinds of similar phrases and ideas accompany it.
  - cellularmitosis 7y ago
    My dude, there is absolutely zero comparison to be drawn between using the phrase “hey you guys” and using the N word.
    - peterwwillis 7y ago
      Actually, my lady, there is a comparison, and it's the reason they are both wrong. Both are unacceptable because of the negative implications they have toward a gigantic group of people. With the N word, you're perpetuating a hurtful stereotype. With 'hey you guys', you're perpetuating a hurtful stereotype. The roots of both stereotypes are a form of supremacism where one group asserts its dominance on the other. The former is about racial dominance, the latter is about gender dominance. It's basically saying one group is more important than all the others, or one is inferior. That has real world effects and does really bother people. Maybe only one of them bothers you. That doesn't mean only one of them is valid. Logical deduction shows that they are both discrimination. It's up to you to decide what kind of discrimination you care about.
      - cellularmitosis 7y ago
        I’m less bothered by the logic and more by the tone-deafness. If I am waging a campaign to end the tyranny of my office thermostat being set too cold, it would be in poor taste for me to draw a comparison between “my struggles” and the civil rights movement. It’s insulting to anyone involved with that movement.
        peterwwillis 7y ago
        I agree my comparison was a little extreme, I tend to do that sometimes. I'll work on toning that down.
frenchy 7y ago
It depends a bit on your dialect. On the west coast of North America, "you guys" and likewise "guys" is probaly the most un-marked form of 2-nd person plural. In other places it's "y'all". I'm not sure if "you folks" is normal anywhere, but it's not that weird either. There's other forms to make it plural too, like adding on "people", but that's more coloquial. As far as I know, "guys" isn't really gendered, with the exception of a few people on a linguistic crusade trying to make a point.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I find "folks" is the best of a set of not very good options for addressing a group of mixed gender, since I'm a little too far north of the mason-dixon line to feel comfortable saying "y'all". "folks" doesn't necessarily work well in formal situations though, I wouldn't want to address the C-levels at my company that way. now that I think about it, I really can't think of any word in English that works for that case.
  - bonniemuffin 7y ago
    I agree "hi folks" isn't particularly formal, but I wouldn't use "hi guys" to address the c-suite either. "Guys" and "folks" seem similar in formality to me. I'd probably go with "hi all" for a slightly more formal situation.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      I definitely wouldn't call the execs "guys" either, especially if they're not all men. "hi all" is a good one, thanks for the suggestion. generally I just avoid any second person plural in these situations.
shantly 7y ago
Depends on the area. My part of the Midwestern US, it wouldn't be weird for a woman to address a group comprising only women as "you guys" or similar. There's some subtlety, though, because "the guys" or "some guys" or anything like that remains gendered, as in "I'm going out with the guys"—that'd be a group of at least mostly men, and probably entirely men.

Fellshard 7y ago

Especially in English nowadays: Some people intentionally attempt to introduce more meaning into a phrase than is actually meant in general usage of the phrase, just so that they can be disruptive in this way. Others aren't attempting to be disruptive, but are misguidedly raising alarms thinking they are being helpful towards others, when in fact no-one is actually offended in the first place. All this to say: you shouldn't have to worry about sensitivity for most of those kinds of phrases, except where someone is trying to make you say what you didn't want to say. Call it out when it happens and move on; don't apologize, and don't allow people to read malice into your intentions that you never had.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
peterwwillis 7y ago
This is just really bad career advice, but also you do see how your advice is logically problematic, right? In this model, nobody can ever have a valid complaint, if you never intend malice or offend an existing party. Example: If there are no black people in your office, and you use the N word a million times, and I complain, am I wrong to complain because there were no black people around to get offended or because you didn't intend malice? What's the point of caring whether someone uses a racial slur? Is it just because "that's what we're supposed to do" ? Or is there a deeper problem that we're trying to address?
- Fellshard 7y ago
  Perhaps I would have considered that more relevant a couple decades ago. In the context of the types of phrases being discussed in this thread, I'd err well on the side of assuming the speaker's intention is not malicious, unless a pattern of other kinds of similar phrases and ideas accompany it.
- cellularmitosis 7y ago
  My dude, there is absolutely zero comparison to be drawn between using the phrase “hey you guys” and using the N word.
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    Actually, my lady, there is a comparison, and it's the reason they are both wrong. Both are unacceptable because of the negative implications they have toward a gigantic group of people. With the N word, you're perpetuating a hurtful stereotype. With 'hey you guys', you're perpetuating a hurtful stereotype. The roots of both stereotypes are a form of supremacism where one group asserts its dominance on the other. The former is about racial dominance, the latter is about gender dominance. It's basically saying one group is more important than all the others, or one is inferior. That has real world effects and does really bother people. Maybe only one of them bothers you. That doesn't mean only one of them is valid. Logical deduction shows that they are both discrimination. It's up to you to decide what kind of discrimination you care about.
    - cellularmitosis 7y ago
      I’m less bothered by the logic and more by the tone-deafness. If I am waging a campaign to end the tyranny of my office thermostat being set too cold, it would be in poor taste for me to draw a comparison between “my struggles” and the civil rights movement. It’s insulting to anyone involved with that movement.
      - peterwwillis 7y ago
        I agree my comparison was a little extreme, I tend to do that sometimes. I'll work on toning that down.

frenchy 7y ago

It depends a bit on your dialect. On the west coast of North America, "you guys" and likewise "guys" is probaly the most un-marked form of 2-nd person plural. In other places it's "y'all". I'm not sure if "you folks" is normal anywhere, but it's not that weird either. There's other forms to make it plural too, like adding on "people", but that's more coloquial. As far as I know, "guys" isn't really gendered, with the exception of a few people on a linguistic crusade trying to make a point.

leetcrew 7y ago
I find "folks" is the best of a set of not very good options for addressing a group of mixed gender, since I'm a little too far north of the mason-dixon line to feel comfortable saying "y'all". "folks" doesn't necessarily work well in formal situations though, I wouldn't want to address the C-levels at my company that way. now that I think about it, I really can't think of any word in English that works for that case.
- bonniemuffin 7y ago
  I agree "hi folks" isn't particularly formal, but I wouldn't use "hi guys" to address the c-suite either. "Guys" and "folks" seem similar in formality to me. I'd probably go with "hi all" for a slightly more formal situation.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    I definitely wouldn't call the execs "guys" either, especially if they're not all men. "hi all" is a good one, thanks for the suggestion. generally I just avoid any second person plural in these situations.

shantly 7y ago

Depends on the area. My part of the Midwestern US, it wouldn't be weird for a woman to address a group comprising only women as "you guys" or similar. There's some subtlety, though, because "the guys" or "some guys" or anything like that remains gendered, as in "I'm going out with the guys"—that'd be a group of at least mostly men, and probably entirely men.