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So some manager came up with this, tasked a PO, who tasked a team, and a frontend developer implemented it - and in this chain, in the end, everyone complied. I

So some manager came up with this, tasked a PO, who tasked a team, and a frontend developer implemented it - and in this chain, in the end, everyone complied. I know it's not like murder, but especially in a field where it's so easy to hop into another job/project, one should have greater integrity.

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
This is why real freedom is financial freedom. You don't like what's going on at work, find another job.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I have to agree. I know that for some people it's not easy to just find another job for various reasons, and I've had that problem myself over the years - but there is a line you just don't cross; this is such a line. Deliberately and purposely lying like this is never OK.
matz1 7y ago
Can't assume they don't have integrity. They might just have different moral values. I would gladly implement this any day. Its not illegal.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  > Its not illegal. Fulfilling your basic legal obligations is not the definition of integrity, and often the two are at odds.
  - matz1 7y ago
    what is your definition of integrity ?
    - jedberg 7y ago
      Integrity -- the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness. The definition of integrity requires honesty. Do you think it is honest to tell people "there are 38 rooms left" when you know 38 is a random number? The definition also requires you to act morally. Do you think that anything legal is moral, and vice versa? Slavery was legal. German extermination camps were legal. Were these moral? Smoking weed is illegal. Is it immoral?
      - matz1 7y ago
        Morality is subjective, according to my moral framework, telling people there are 38 room left, if I'm the business owner and the benefit > cost then yes. Same thing with slavery, extermination camp, weed. To some people these are moral.
        stouset 7y ago
        Frankly speaking, your moral framework needs work. Sincerely, the rest of society.
        matz1 7y ago
        Its normal. You may disagree with my morality and me or other people may as well disagree with your morality, whatever that is.
        apta 7y ago
        Out of curiosity, are you an atheist/agnostic?
        stouset 7y ago
        Any moral framework that attempts to justify outright lying in order to obtain personal gain at others' expense is not only not normal, it is also indefensible.
- plurple 7y ago
  It is almost certainly illegal. The use of falsified facts in an advertisement is illegal.
  - matz1 7y ago
    >almost That it mean not illegal ?
- ArnoVW 7y ago
  The dictionary definition of fraud: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
- ben509 7y ago
  > They might just have different moral values. This is why "values" is a terrible word to use to describe morals. Values are subjective things like modesty or frugality. Those are values, because how you dress or spend your money generally have consequences only to yourself. Something becomes immoral when it deprives another person of their inalienable rights; it causes them harm. Others' rights aren't subject to negotiation, that's what "inalienable" means. That one can often get away with bullying or lying might make it seem like it's just a personal choice. That is, until people get fed up with it and hold that person to account for their actions.
  - matz1 7y ago
    Same thing with morality, its subjective. There are no such thing as inalienable rights. Every right has to be earned and fight for.
    - cgriswald 7y ago
      One of the ways you earn and fight for those rights is by not claiming they don’t exist. There are already enough people in the world who think you don’t deserve those rights. Best to keep the goal posts far away and convince as many others as you can that that’s where they belong.
      - matz1 7y ago
        Yes, any rights exist because someone earn it or fight for it. Its not just given from god or something.
        ben509 7y ago
        And yet tribes and nations that recognize and protect inalienable rights are consistently able to defeat those that assume the strong should have power over the weak. The reason being that individuals living in societies with inalienable rights feel they have more worth fighting for, and they are more industrious and able to build robust trust networks. None of that is subjective, it's all how the universe works, so, yes, you could plausibly attribute it to God or any kind of creator.
megablast 7y ago
> tasked a PO, who tasked a team, and a frontend developer implemented it - and in this chain, in the end, everyone complied You have only worked on big projects, right? This could be on developer. It could also be a FE change that was supposed to be hooked up to the backend, but went out early.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  This would not surprise me. If I had a dollar for all the stupid crap I PRd that got caught by peers. If its a small team with no peer review... Whoops. Hard to say why this is till they change it.
- flurdy 7y ago
  > It could also be a FE change that was supposed to be hooked up to the backend, but went out early. Quite likely this. Passes all requirements tests. So follow up story to add real data is still in the deep frozen backlog. May get promoted to ready in year never.

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago

This is why real freedom is financial freedom. You don't like what's going on at work, find another job.

GordonS 7y ago
I have to agree. I know that for some people it's not easy to just find another job for various reasons, and I've had that problem myself over the years - but there is a line you just don't cross; this is such a line. Deliberately and purposely lying like this is never OK.

matz1 7y ago

Can't assume they don't have integrity. They might just have different moral values. I would gladly implement this any day. Its not illegal.

microcolonel 7y ago
> Its not illegal. Fulfilling your basic legal obligations is not the definition of integrity, and often the two are at odds.
- matz1 7y ago
  what is your definition of integrity ?
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Integrity -- the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness. The definition of integrity requires honesty. Do you think it is honest to tell people "there are 38 rooms left" when you know 38 is a random number? The definition also requires you to act morally. Do you think that anything legal is moral, and vice versa? Slavery was legal. German extermination camps were legal. Were these moral? Smoking weed is illegal. Is it immoral?
    - matz1 7y ago
      Morality is subjective, according to my moral framework, telling people there are 38 room left, if I'm the business owner and the benefit > cost then yes. Same thing with slavery, extermination camp, weed. To some people these are moral.
      - stouset 7y ago
        Frankly speaking, your moral framework needs work. Sincerely, the rest of society.
        matz1 7y ago
        Its normal. You may disagree with my morality and me or other people may as well disagree with your morality, whatever that is.
        apta 7y ago
        Out of curiosity, are you an atheist/agnostic?
        stouset 7y ago
        Any moral framework that attempts to justify outright lying in order to obtain personal gain at others' expense is not only not normal, it is also indefensible.
plurple 7y ago
It is almost certainly illegal. The use of falsified facts in an advertisement is illegal.
- matz1 7y ago
  >almost That it mean not illegal ?
ArnoVW 7y ago
The dictionary definition of fraud: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
ben509 7y ago
> They might just have different moral values. This is why "values" is a terrible word to use to describe morals. Values are subjective things like modesty or frugality. Those are values, because how you dress or spend your money generally have consequences only to yourself. Something becomes immoral when it deprives another person of their inalienable rights; it causes them harm. Others' rights aren't subject to negotiation, that's what "inalienable" means. That one can often get away with bullying or lying might make it seem like it's just a personal choice. That is, until people get fed up with it and hold that person to account for their actions.
- matz1 7y ago
  Same thing with morality, its subjective. There are no such thing as inalienable rights. Every right has to be earned and fight for.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    One of the ways you earn and fight for those rights is by not claiming they don’t exist. There are already enough people in the world who think you don’t deserve those rights. Best to keep the goal posts far away and convince as many others as you can that that’s where they belong.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Yes, any rights exist because someone earn it or fight for it. Its not just given from god or something.
      - ben509 7y ago
        And yet tribes and nations that recognize and protect inalienable rights are consistently able to defeat those that assume the strong should have power over the weak. The reason being that individuals living in societies with inalienable rights feel they have more worth fighting for, and they are more industrious and able to build robust trust networks. None of that is subjective, it's all how the universe works, so, yes, you could plausibly attribute it to God or any kind of creator.

megablast 7y ago

> tasked a PO, who tasked a team, and a frontend developer implemented it - and in this chain, in the end, everyone complied You have only worked on big projects, right? This could be on developer. It could also be a FE change that was supposed to be hooked up to the backend, but went out early.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
This would not surprise me. If I had a dollar for all the stupid crap I PRd that got caught by peers. If its a small team with no peer review... Whoops. Hard to say why this is till they change it.
flurdy 7y ago
> It could also be a FE change that was supposed to be hooked up to the backend, but went out early. Quite likely this. Passes all requirements tests. So follow up story to add real data is still in the deep frozen backlog. May get promoted to ready in year never.