10 ms·

The Grove 8 – Growing Trees in Blender

604 points by juretriglav 7y ago

savolai 7y ago
It took me quite a while to realize the title was talking about Blender the software, and not about the kitchen appliance. At the end of the the first video I was still convinced this was about actual organic trees. :)
- rubyfan 7y ago
  I thought it was only me. I read it as “Growing Trees in a blender” and expected some sort of biology or other science article.
trashE 7y ago
Very cool! Would like to learn blender just so I could use such tools.
- keyle 7y ago
  Blender 2.8 is much easier to pick up after a major revamp of the interface, it's far more friendly to get into. Eventually you'll move on from using any of the icons and shortcut everything anyway, because you can be so blazing fast. Try it out, it's fun and free.
  - andybak 7y ago
    Blender 2.8 looks like an improvement but as someone fairly adept in Photoshop, Illustrator, 3DS Max, After Effects, Ableton, Unity etc I still find it one of the trickiest apps to wrap my head around. It's not that the apps I already know have an especially good UX or that Blender is especially bad - it's just that Blender makes few concessions to existing conventions and doesn't provide much in terms of discoverability. 2.8 is definitely a step in the right direction but lets not get ahead of ourselves in praising it as suddenly becoming a paragon of usability.
    - zamadatix 7y ago
      As someone who downloaded 2.8 just to poke around a bit and see what it can do for fun can you give some examples of "makes few concessions to existing conventions"?
    - iamcreasy 7y ago
      The only thing that I need to keep track of is that the idea of no-overlapping windows. The hotkeys behaves differently depending on which windows your mouse is on. Here is a example on the case: C on 3d windows trigger circle select tool, but C on the outliner create a new collection. But this behavior has exception. Sometimes some keys have global effect. For example, Shift Space always runs the animation. What other things you find tricky in Blender?
      - truckerbill 7y ago
        One thing I've run into most recently : working with materials is a pain. There's no easy list that you can delete them in a classic-UX way (that I can find). Copying and pasting/duplicating ends up creating large numbers of identical materials and there was no immediately obvious way to prevent this. The interface for creating shared material parameters is unintuitive compared to something like Unreal.
        microcolonel 7y ago
        You can accomplish it in the Outliner, by searching for "Material". There are other ways, though I guess they could do with some sort of purpose-built view that only exists to list and show materials.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      doesn't provide much in terms of discoverability Space or Shift-Space or whatever the new 2.8 default shortcut is opens up an action menu with every possible action available to you and a search bar to explore them. Actually, with this feature Blender surpasses most other creative suites in terms of discoverability. Perhaps what you are really looking for is a tutorial? They have those, too.
  - tobr 7y ago
    I first tried Blender a few years ago and it felt inscrutable. I was able to do some very basic things but always felt like I didn’t get what was going on or how things fit together. I picked it up again about a month ago, and this time it seemed to just click. In my case part of it might be that I did use it briefly before, but as well I think the combination of a very thoughtful redesign and the excellent new “Blender Fundamentals 2.8” videos[1] that they lead you to right after you download Blender. 1: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1F2ddGya_-UvuAqHAksYnB0qL9yWDO6 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1F2ddGya_-UvuAqHAks...
- dessant 7y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkSdlbXB_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkSdlbXB_U
dforrestwilson 7y ago
I wish all video games had this level of scientific depth underlying them.
- keyle 7y ago
  You'd be surprised how deep some of the AAA studio go in developing complex systems for physics, rocks or grass!
  - nineteen999 7y ago
    Unreal 4.23 just integrated a beta implementation of "Chaos Destruction" - pretty crazy stuff. https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Chaos/ChaosDestruction/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Chaos/ChaosDestru... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ktiewcLpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ktiewcLpo
- dahart 7y ago
  As an ex console games developer, I'd say they absolutely do. There may be a difference in the fidelity & geometric complexity of the output, and it's not all a singular focus by one person or as pretty as the trees made by Grove8, but the methods being used even in mobile games are building on decades of compounding scientific work. Procedural geometry and shading models are just the easy ones to point at, but generally speaking, physics, AI, design, gameplay, and art are all compounding as well.
  - derefr 7y ago
    For the physics and art, maybe. But how about NPC AI in e.g. a market-arbitrage game, that shows known psychological biases that can be exploited? Or a damage system in an FPS where people/creatures get weaker and slower as they get hurt, and leave blood trails to find them by if they’re not careful? Or how about an item crafting system that’s just regular chemistry, requiring complex glassware setups, catalysts, ice baths, filtering and distilling, fume hoods, etc.? Games sure don’t seem to favor fidelity when it comes to the “game” part. :)
tux1968 7y ago
This is very cool. Over $500 USD for this Blender plugin and the 38 Twigs they currently have on offer is chicken feed for any professional use. But it sure is a lot for casual use and playing around. Blender 2.8 comes with a Tree generation plugin that isn't as sophisticated as this one, but still can be quite impressive. Preferences -> Add-on -> Add Curve : Sapling Tree Gen Actually it predates version 2.8 by quite a bit, here is an older video of how to use the plugin on a previous version of Blender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRF5S0aHwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRF5S0aHwU
- antiuniverse 7y ago
  Very impressive, and I'm also seriously tempted to look into a pipeline to take these into Unreal Engine as an alternative to SpeedTree. There's something I've been curious about, though, which is that since Blender is licensed under the GPL, aren't all these add-ons also forced to release under a GPL license? Which means the first person to pay the ~$500 is legally within their rights to reupload this product for the rest of the world to download freely? Not trying to troll, though I worry it may come across that way. It's just that I've actually had a friend try to convince me to work on Blender add-ons for supplemental income, and it seemed like a bad idea for that reason... so I'd like to make sure I'm not missing something. (I guess you can make the case that all the comparable non-GPL software gets pirated too, but this seemed somehow more demoralizing to me.)
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Blender plugins are python. No linkage.
    - antiuniverse 7y ago
      Hmm, I swear this must be new since last time I checked the Blender site, but it seems to address my concerns very succinctly, and apparently that's not relevant: > Sharing or selling Blender add-ons (Python scripts) > Blender’s Python API is an integral part of Blender, used to define the UI or develop tools for example. The GNU GPL license therefore requires that such scripts (if published) are being shared under a GPL GPL compatible license. You are free to sell such scripts, but the sales then is restricted to the download service itself. Your customers will receive the script under the same license, with the same free conditions as everyone has for Blender. Sharing Blender or its scripts is always OK and not piracy.
wodenokoto 7y ago
> The unique year-by-year simulation is a beautiful animation unfolding right before your eyes. But there was no way to record this animation, and no way to render it. I don't understand how you could watch it but not record it, in older versions.
youdontknowtho 7y ago
Does the video freak anyone else out? It's amazing, but something in my lizard brain just kicked me. I guess I'm saying I have some issues.
joveian 7y ago
While not realistic in most ways, I enjoyed the 2d trees in A Valley Without Wind, very colorful and they change some with the day/night cycle. Also, you could "shrink" trees (and other objects) into your inventory and bring them back to your base to decorate. A couple of screenshots: https://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/rlcxpg3498/12.jpg https://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/rlcxpg3498/12.jpg https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/may/valley5.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/may/valley5.jpg/R...
_ah 7y ago
I love this. Here is a tree modeling tool created by someone who really loves trees. There's no other way to describe it. Anyone else would have been happy to stop at "good enough" trees, but here the attention to detail with light, gravity, wind, and relentless comparison to nature creates a result that it beautiful and "right" on a subtle level that's hard to describe. I feel happier knowing that people like this creator exist in the world. We should all aspire to such dedication in our craft!
solotronics 7y ago
When I see stuff like this I wonder if we are already in a simulation.
ryanackley 7y ago
If you're looking for something similar for game development, check out speedtree. It has a comparable feature set. Also, has a relatively low month-to-month fee.
mehtaib 7y ago
Any research paper which goes into more detail about how they achieve the growth animation?

604 points by juretriglav 7y ago

It took me quite a while to realize the title was talking about Blender the software, and not about the kitchen appliance. At the end of the the first video I was still convinced this was about actual organic trees. :)

rubyfan 7y ago
I thought it was only me. I read it as “Growing Trees in a blender” and expected some sort of biology or other science article.

trashE 7y ago

Very cool! Would like to learn blender just so I could use such tools.

keyle 7y ago
Blender 2.8 is much easier to pick up after a major revamp of the interface, it's far more friendly to get into. Eventually you'll move on from using any of the icons and shortcut everything anyway, because you can be so blazing fast. Try it out, it's fun and free.
- andybak 7y ago
  Blender 2.8 looks like an improvement but as someone fairly adept in Photoshop, Illustrator, 3DS Max, After Effects, Ableton, Unity etc I still find it one of the trickiest apps to wrap my head around. It's not that the apps I already know have an especially good UX or that Blender is especially bad - it's just that Blender makes few concessions to existing conventions and doesn't provide much in terms of discoverability. 2.8 is definitely a step in the right direction but lets not get ahead of ourselves in praising it as suddenly becoming a paragon of usability.
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    As someone who downloaded 2.8 just to poke around a bit and see what it can do for fun can you give some examples of "makes few concessions to existing conventions"?
  - iamcreasy 7y ago
    The only thing that I need to keep track of is that the idea of no-overlapping windows. The hotkeys behaves differently depending on which windows your mouse is on. Here is a example on the case: C on 3d windows trigger circle select tool, but C on the outliner create a new collection. But this behavior has exception. Sometimes some keys have global effect. For example, Shift Space always runs the animation. What other things you find tricky in Blender?
    - truckerbill 7y ago
      One thing I've run into most recently : working with materials is a pain. There's no easy list that you can delete them in a classic-UX way (that I can find). Copying and pasting/duplicating ends up creating large numbers of identical materials and there was no immediately obvious way to prevent this. The interface for creating shared material parameters is unintuitive compared to something like Unreal.
      - microcolonel 7y ago
        You can accomplish it in the Outliner, by searching for "Material". There are other ways, though I guess they could do with some sort of purpose-built view that only exists to list and show materials.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    doesn't provide much in terms of discoverability Space or Shift-Space or whatever the new 2.8 default shortcut is opens up an action menu with every possible action available to you and a search bar to explore them. Actually, with this feature Blender surpasses most other creative suites in terms of discoverability. Perhaps what you are really looking for is a tutorial? They have those, too.
- tobr 7y ago
  I first tried Blender a few years ago and it felt inscrutable. I was able to do some very basic things but always felt like I didn’t get what was going on or how things fit together. I picked it up again about a month ago, and this time it seemed to just click. In my case part of it might be that I did use it briefly before, but as well I think the combination of a very thoughtful redesign and the excellent new “Blender Fundamentals 2.8” videos[1] that they lead you to right after you download Blender. 1: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1F2ddGya_-UvuAqHAksYnB0qL9yWDO6 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1F2ddGya_-UvuAqHAks...
dessant 7y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkSdlbXB_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkSdlbXB_U

dforrestwilson 7y ago

I wish all video games had this level of scientific depth underlying them.

keyle 7y ago
You'd be surprised how deep some of the AAA studio go in developing complex systems for physics, rocks or grass!
- nineteen999 7y ago
  Unreal 4.23 just integrated a beta implementation of "Chaos Destruction" - pretty crazy stuff. https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Chaos/ChaosDestruction/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Chaos/ChaosDestru... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ktiewcLpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ktiewcLpo
dahart 7y ago
As an ex console games developer, I'd say they absolutely do. There may be a difference in the fidelity & geometric complexity of the output, and it's not all a singular focus by one person or as pretty as the trees made by Grove8, but the methods being used even in mobile games are building on decades of compounding scientific work. Procedural geometry and shading models are just the easy ones to point at, but generally speaking, physics, AI, design, gameplay, and art are all compounding as well.
- derefr 7y ago
  For the physics and art, maybe. But how about NPC AI in e.g. a market-arbitrage game, that shows known psychological biases that can be exploited? Or a damage system in an FPS where people/creatures get weaker and slower as they get hurt, and leave blood trails to find them by if they’re not careful? Or how about an item crafting system that’s just regular chemistry, requiring complex glassware setups, catalysts, ice baths, filtering and distilling, fume hoods, etc.? Games sure don’t seem to favor fidelity when it comes to the “game” part. :)

tux1968 7y ago

This is very cool. Over $500 USD for this Blender plugin and the 38 Twigs they currently have on offer is chicken feed for any professional use. But it sure is a lot for casual use and playing around. Blender 2.8 comes with a Tree generation plugin that isn't as sophisticated as this one, but still can be quite impressive. Preferences -> Add-on -> Add Curve : Sapling Tree Gen Actually it predates version 2.8 by quite a bit, here is an older video of how to use the plugin on a previous version of Blender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRF5S0aHwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRF5S0aHwU

antiuniverse 7y ago
Very impressive, and I'm also seriously tempted to look into a pipeline to take these into Unreal Engine as an alternative to SpeedTree. There's something I've been curious about, though, which is that since Blender is licensed under the GPL, aren't all these add-ons also forced to release under a GPL license? Which means the first person to pay the ~$500 is legally within their rights to reupload this product for the rest of the world to download freely? Not trying to troll, though I worry it may come across that way. It's just that I've actually had a friend try to convince me to work on Blender add-ons for supplemental income, and it seemed like a bad idea for that reason... so I'd like to make sure I'm not missing something. (I guess you can make the case that all the comparable non-GPL software gets pirated too, but this seemed somehow more demoralizing to me.)
- TylerE 7y ago
  Blender plugins are python. No linkage.
  - antiuniverse 7y ago
    Hmm, I swear this must be new since last time I checked the Blender site, but it seems to address my concerns very succinctly, and apparently that's not relevant: > Sharing or selling Blender add-ons (Python scripts) > Blender’s Python API is an integral part of Blender, used to define the UI or develop tools for example. The GNU GPL license therefore requires that such scripts (if published) are being shared under a GPL GPL compatible license. You are free to sell such scripts, but the sales then is restricted to the download service itself. Your customers will receive the script under the same license, with the same free conditions as everyone has for Blender. Sharing Blender or its scripts is always OK and not piracy.

wodenokoto 7y ago

> The unique year-by-year simulation is a beautiful animation unfolding right before your eyes. But there was no way to record this animation, and no way to render it. I don't understand how you could watch it but not record it, in older versions.

youdontknowtho 7y ago

Does the video freak anyone else out? It's amazing, but something in my lizard brain just kicked me. I guess I'm saying I have some issues.

joveian 7y ago

While not realistic in most ways, I enjoyed the 2d trees in A Valley Without Wind, very colorful and they change some with the day/night cycle. Also, you could "shrink" trees (and other objects) into your inventory and bring them back to your base to decorate. A couple of screenshots: https://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/rlcxpg3498/12.jpg https://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/rlcxpg3498/12.jpg https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/may/valley5.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/may/valley5.jpg/R...

_ah 7y ago

I love this. Here is a tree modeling tool created by someone who really loves trees. There's no other way to describe it. Anyone else would have been happy to stop at "good enough" trees, but here the attention to detail with light, gravity, wind, and relentless comparison to nature creates a result that it beautiful and "right" on a subtle level that's hard to describe. I feel happier knowing that people like this creator exist in the world. We should all aspire to such dedication in our craft!

solotronics 7y ago

When I see stuff like this I wonder if we are already in a simulation.

ryanackley 7y ago

If you're looking for something similar for game development, check out speedtree. It has a comparable feature set. Also, has a relatively low month-to-month fee.

mehtaib 7y ago

Any research paper which goes into more detail about how they achieve the growth animation?