4 ms·

I skimmed a bit, but is this article trying to imply that the FBI killed Billy in Ukraine because they thought he was trying to defect?

itronitron 7y ago
I didn't get that impression. I think the parents felt that the FBI should have done more for them and for Billy considering his use to the FBI over several years prior to his trip to Russia.
- colmvp 7y ago
  Plus the journalist from WSJ did more for them in helping them find Billy than the FBI did. And recovering the body was also a huge ordeal that the parents basically did on their own.
  - treden 7y ago
    Yes, that sucks. But. Assuming the FBI asked him not to go, why and how should they FBI put resources into finding out what he did and what happened to him? Whether the FBI sent him there or not, he decided on his own to stay beyond his plan, and then enter a war zone. Everyone who does some contracting for the FBI deserves world-wide babysitting service?
pmorici 7y ago
The gist I got was that the family suspected that the FBI asked him to go in the first place and then when he disappeared the FBI denied responsibility and tried to tell them their son had gone rogue to minimize their own responsibility. The take away is that they more or less manipulated this young man into doing things he had no business getting involved in.
- treden 7y ago
  It is a sad story, but from reading it, I dont think they manipulated him into going overseas. If you just look factually at the statements of the FBI, not the implications, it sounds like they asked him not to go, but he went anyway. Seems like the responsibility is not the FBI's, he's 28, old enough to take responsibility for his own decisions. There's even some implication that they intervened and shut down his other trip (to meet a woman he wanted to marry in ISIS territory! Bad Idea!). So FBI knew about the Russia trip but didn't shut it down maybe because he wasn't an employee they control? It's a free country, you dont need an exit visa. And asking him for contact info doesn't necessarily imply that they asked him to go. The article danced around that question, implying that FBI asked him to go (because they knew he went), but it's hard to imagine the FBI thinking the guy was a competent field agent (after shutting down the jihadi-bride trip). What would anyone have to gain from him bumbling around Donetsk/Russia? He was adept at penetrating jihadi chat groups, why would they risk that asset? It seems that (from what little we have to go on) the agent handling him was far more concentrated on the middle east, but asked him to do a one-off on Donetsk, and he got interested in that region on his own. Also it says that FSB invited him over. That was the big red flag for me: "Hey Mom! guess what?! FSB invited me to Russia!! w00t!" What happened to that paper? What did it say exactly?? Why would you tell your mom that FSB invited you to Russia? Something's not quite right in this narrative, so many holes. WSJ is doing FBI FUD pieces now?
  - tptacek 7y ago
    I was with you until the last sentence. Whatever happened, this is pretty clearly a story.
    - treden 7y ago
      A hit piece is a story. Presented in a biased way. The title says clearly that the FBI is responsible for losing him. But it sounds like he actually wandered off into the wilderness on his own. -- edit -- Oops, I wrote 'hit piece' originally and changed it to FUD. But still, the implication is that the FBI is a menace and that they're lying about their involvement.
catalogia 7y ago
The implication I got is the men Billy found himself among men who didn't respect him (saw him as a walking wallet) and murdered him after he was no longer useful to them (they plausibly considered him a liability in combat since he didn't fit the mold of a soldier.) However I don't know if there was combat reported in the vicinity of Dibrivka during that particular time period. It's possible he was killed in combat. > "Billy was nearly the opposite—5-foot-7, 160 pounds, his features rounded by a diet of snacks and fast food. His scruffy brown beard offset a receding hairline; rectangular metal-frame glasses gave him a bookish look." > "Mr. Polynkov sized up his new recruit as a traveler, not a fighter. In his experience, soldiers of fortune didn’t travel with wheeled oversize suitcases. He tried to dissuade Billy from going to Rostov [...]" > "Men at the camp forced Billy to pay their liquor tabs. “He was naive,” Mr. Victorov said. Billy’s credit cards registered more than $2,700 in fraudulent purchases and cash advances in Russia before he disappeared."
- rhexs 7y ago
  Judging from the picture, the guy looked like a bumbling American nerd, not some sort of freedom fighter or partisan. I'm sure they pegged him as a potential spy from the start. Got in over his head, lead to a tragic end. Lesson here is don't play war. Would he still be alive had the FBI not recruited him? Maybe, maybe not, but we'll never know.
- nkrisc 7y ago
  I don't think he ever stood a chance with soldier of fortune types. The kind of guys who go to fight for Russia backed separatists probably eat guys like him for breakfast. From the description of his death it sounds like he might have been murdered by one of them. Maybe he ran out of money or he ticked off the wrong guy.

itronitron 7y ago

I didn't get that impression. I think the parents felt that the FBI should have done more for them and for Billy considering his use to the FBI over several years prior to his trip to Russia.

colmvp 7y ago
Plus the journalist from WSJ did more for them in helping them find Billy than the FBI did. And recovering the body was also a huge ordeal that the parents basically did on their own.
- treden 7y ago
  Yes, that sucks. But. Assuming the FBI asked him not to go, why and how should they FBI put resources into finding out what he did and what happened to him? Whether the FBI sent him there or not, he decided on his own to stay beyond his plan, and then enter a war zone. Everyone who does some contracting for the FBI deserves world-wide babysitting service?

pmorici 7y ago

The gist I got was that the family suspected that the FBI asked him to go in the first place and then when he disappeared the FBI denied responsibility and tried to tell them their son had gone rogue to minimize their own responsibility. The take away is that they more or less manipulated this young man into doing things he had no business getting involved in.

treden 7y ago
It is a sad story, but from reading it, I dont think they manipulated him into going overseas. If you just look factually at the statements of the FBI, not the implications, it sounds like they asked him not to go, but he went anyway. Seems like the responsibility is not the FBI's, he's 28, old enough to take responsibility for his own decisions. There's even some implication that they intervened and shut down his other trip (to meet a woman he wanted to marry in ISIS territory! Bad Idea!). So FBI knew about the Russia trip but didn't shut it down maybe because he wasn't an employee they control? It's a free country, you dont need an exit visa. And asking him for contact info doesn't necessarily imply that they asked him to go. The article danced around that question, implying that FBI asked him to go (because they knew he went), but it's hard to imagine the FBI thinking the guy was a competent field agent (after shutting down the jihadi-bride trip). What would anyone have to gain from him bumbling around Donetsk/Russia? He was adept at penetrating jihadi chat groups, why would they risk that asset? It seems that (from what little we have to go on) the agent handling him was far more concentrated on the middle east, but asked him to do a one-off on Donetsk, and he got interested in that region on his own. Also it says that FSB invited him over. That was the big red flag for me: "Hey Mom! guess what?! FSB invited me to Russia!! w00t!" What happened to that paper? What did it say exactly?? Why would you tell your mom that FSB invited you to Russia? Something's not quite right in this narrative, so many holes. WSJ is doing FBI FUD pieces now?
- tptacek 7y ago
  I was with you until the last sentence. Whatever happened, this is pretty clearly a story.
  - treden 7y ago
    A hit piece is a story. Presented in a biased way. The title says clearly that the FBI is responsible for losing him. But it sounds like he actually wandered off into the wilderness on his own. -- edit -- Oops, I wrote 'hit piece' originally and changed it to FUD. But still, the implication is that the FBI is a menace and that they're lying about their involvement.

catalogia 7y ago

The implication I got is the men Billy found himself among men who didn't respect him (saw him as a walking wallet) and murdered him after he was no longer useful to them (they plausibly considered him a liability in combat since he didn't fit the mold of a soldier.) However I don't know if there was combat reported in the vicinity of Dibrivka during that particular time period. It's possible he was killed in combat. > "Billy was nearly the opposite—5-foot-7, 160 pounds, his features rounded by a diet of snacks and fast food. His scruffy brown beard offset a receding hairline; rectangular metal-frame glasses gave him a bookish look." > "Mr. Polynkov sized up his new recruit as a traveler, not a fighter. In his experience, soldiers of fortune didn’t travel with wheeled oversize suitcases. He tried to dissuade Billy from going to Rostov [...]" > "Men at the camp forced Billy to pay their liquor tabs. “He was naive,” Mr. Victorov said. Billy’s credit cards registered more than $2,700 in fraudulent purchases and cash advances in Russia before he disappeared."

rhexs 7y ago
Judging from the picture, the guy looked like a bumbling American nerd, not some sort of freedom fighter or partisan. I'm sure they pegged him as a potential spy from the start. Got in over his head, lead to a tragic end. Lesson here is don't play war. Would he still be alive had the FBI not recruited him? Maybe, maybe not, but we'll never know.
nkrisc 7y ago
I don't think he ever stood a chance with soldier of fortune types. The kind of guys who go to fight for Russia backed separatists probably eat guys like him for breakfast. From the description of his death it sounds like he might have been murdered by one of them. Maybe he ran out of money or he ticked off the wrong guy.