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We should be focusing on getting mental health treatment for many of these homeless people instead of focusing on the fact that they have no home. Mental healt

We should be focusing on getting mental health treatment for many of these homeless people instead of focusing on the fact that they have no home. Mental health is usually the root of the problem. Many homeless people had jobs, homes, families that would take care of them and now that's all gone because they can no longer hold down a job, are usually on drugs, and family can't or won't deal with their behavior any longer.

sysbin 7y ago
I doubt mental health is the real problem but there is no denying if these homeless were unnaturally happy, they could be working slaves anywhere and make enough to not be on the streets. My assumption is finances being the real problem and the general homeless are an age where if you don't have the resources like your peers, well this is the outcome with the outlook of not caring. Basically, I think getting them off the street will result in them getting back on the street because of their age and financial situation.
0xcde4c3db 7y ago
I'm not sure the two can be cleanly separated. At least in some cases, being housed seems to be a radically more effective "treatment" than anything a mental health professional can offer [1]. This shouldn't be entirely shocking, since chronic homelessness tends to come with a number of things that can exacerbate mental illness (disrupted sleep, irregular diet, chronic feelings of threat/insecurity, difficulty maintaining personal hygiene, etc.). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/17/the-surprisingly-simple-way-utah-solved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04...
DoreenMichele 7y ago
No, mental health issues really are not a direct cause of homelessness per se. That narrative is popular because it's a convenient way to paint homelessness as a personal problem that is the fault of the homeless individual. It's a convenient means to wash our collective hands of the responsibility of addressing societal factors, such as national housing policy and how that strangles the availability of low cost housing that works without owning a car. We say homeless people are all "junkies and crazies" and blame their lack of housing on them. Meanwhile, there are junkie millionaire musicians and actors. We don't use their existence as an excuse to conclude "drug addiction leads to wealth!" I get told over and over again that housing costs aren't a factor in homelessness at all. In reality, it's a known and proven factor, but it's one that doesn't feed the narrative that homelessness is fundamentally an individual problem rather than a systemic societal problem.
- planetzero 7y ago
  "No, mental health issues really are not a direct cause of homelessness per se." So how do you explain people that make a good living to living in a box by the railroad tracks if not some sort of mental illness? It has nothing to do with the cost or availability of housing. If the rent gets too high, a person not mentally ill would just move to a more affordable city/part of the city rather than live on the streets. "We say homeless people are all "junkies and crazies" and blame their lack of housing on them" Giving someone a house that can't even feed themselves won't fix the problem. "Meanwhile, there are junkie millionaire musicians and actors. We don't use their existence as an excuse to conclude "drug addiction leads to wealth!" Why would we? Most drug addicts aren't wealthy. Wealthy people are sometimes drug addicts. That's a ridiculous argument. "it's a known and proven factor, but it's one that doesn't feed the narrative that homelessness is fundamentally an individual problem rather than a systemic societal problem." It is a systemic problem. Cities like San Francisco won't address the problem with mental illness and they have laws in place that allow homeless people to shit and piss in the streets with impunity. There are tons of shelters in and around the city (and most big cities), but most won't go because they won't be able to get drunk or high.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Giving someone a house that can't even feed themselves won't fix the problem. I am not for a Housing First model. I'm for increasing the availability of market based housing that makes sense for small households (1-3 people) who may not have/want a car. Most drug addicts aren't wealthy. Drugs cost money. Taking enough drugs to qualify for a label of addict isn't cheap. Some drug addicts manage the high cost of addiction by becoming dealers. But the addicts and alcoholics I've personally known were pretty comfortably well off. Seriously poor people with very low incomes simply can't afford to stay drunk or high. They don't have enough money to buy that much booze or drugs on a consistent basis. There are tons of shelters in and around the city (and most big cities), but most won't go because they won't be able to get drunk or high. I neither drink nor do drugs. I was homeless for nearly six years. I never stayed in a homeless shelter because they are often basically a cross between a prison and a shit hole. They have mold problems, theft problems, highly constraining rules that middle class would not accept to get housing themselves (such as curfews), etc. Yes, cities like San Francisco that are trying to not be monstrously uncompassionate and trying to avoid the evils of criminalizing poverty are all too often doing things that don't actually resolve the issue and tend to help entrench it. I'm the author of the piece under discussion. Before I was homeless, I was studying to become an urban planner. I've researched this problem space for at least two decades. I'm trying to come up with actual solutions that can help make a real difference. Some of the things I would like to see: 1. More SROs and Missing Middle housing. 2. More walkable and bike-friendly communities and better public transit so cars stop being a necessity in the US and lack of a car stops being a huge barrier to having a middle class life at all. 3. More flexible employment for people who don't fit in to "regular jobs" and better programs for helping such "misfits" find employment that makes sense for them. 4. A real solution to America's health care issues which are a huge financial burden for far too many people and a factor that helps push some people out into the street.

sysbin 7y ago

I doubt mental health is the real problem but there is no denying if these homeless were unnaturally happy, they could be working slaves anywhere and make enough to not be on the streets. My assumption is finances being the real problem and the general homeless are an age where if you don't have the resources like your peers, well this is the outcome with the outlook of not caring. Basically, I think getting them off the street will result in them getting back on the street because of their age and financial situation.

0xcde4c3db 7y ago

I'm not sure the two can be cleanly separated. At least in some cases, being housed seems to be a radically more effective "treatment" than anything a mental health professional can offer [1]. This shouldn't be entirely shocking, since chronic homelessness tends to come with a number of things that can exacerbate mental illness (disrupted sleep, irregular diet, chronic feelings of threat/insecurity, difficulty maintaining personal hygiene, etc.). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/17/the-surprisingly-simple-way-utah-solved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04...

DoreenMichele 7y ago

No, mental health issues really are not a direct cause of homelessness per se. That narrative is popular because it's a convenient way to paint homelessness as a personal problem that is the fault of the homeless individual. It's a convenient means to wash our collective hands of the responsibility of addressing societal factors, such as national housing policy and how that strangles the availability of low cost housing that works without owning a car. We say homeless people are all "junkies and crazies" and blame their lack of housing on them. Meanwhile, there are junkie millionaire musicians and actors. We don't use their existence as an excuse to conclude "drug addiction leads to wealth!" I get told over and over again that housing costs aren't a factor in homelessness at all. In reality, it's a known and proven factor, but it's one that doesn't feed the narrative that homelessness is fundamentally an individual problem rather than a systemic societal problem.

planetzero 7y ago
"No, mental health issues really are not a direct cause of homelessness per se." So how do you explain people that make a good living to living in a box by the railroad tracks if not some sort of mental illness? It has nothing to do with the cost or availability of housing. If the rent gets too high, a person not mentally ill would just move to a more affordable city/part of the city rather than live on the streets. "We say homeless people are all "junkies and crazies" and blame their lack of housing on them" Giving someone a house that can't even feed themselves won't fix the problem. "Meanwhile, there are junkie millionaire musicians and actors. We don't use their existence as an excuse to conclude "drug addiction leads to wealth!" Why would we? Most drug addicts aren't wealthy. Wealthy people are sometimes drug addicts. That's a ridiculous argument. "it's a known and proven factor, but it's one that doesn't feed the narrative that homelessness is fundamentally an individual problem rather than a systemic societal problem." It is a systemic problem. Cities like San Francisco won't address the problem with mental illness and they have laws in place that allow homeless people to shit and piss in the streets with impunity. There are tons of shelters in and around the city (and most big cities), but most won't go because they won't be able to get drunk or high.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Giving someone a house that can't even feed themselves won't fix the problem. I am not for a Housing First model. I'm for increasing the availability of market based housing that makes sense for small households (1-3 people) who may not have/want a car. Most drug addicts aren't wealthy. Drugs cost money. Taking enough drugs to qualify for a label of addict isn't cheap. Some drug addicts manage the high cost of addiction by becoming dealers. But the addicts and alcoholics I've personally known were pretty comfortably well off. Seriously poor people with very low incomes simply can't afford to stay drunk or high. They don't have enough money to buy that much booze or drugs on a consistent basis. There are tons of shelters in and around the city (and most big cities), but most won't go because they won't be able to get drunk or high. I neither drink nor do drugs. I was homeless for nearly six years. I never stayed in a homeless shelter because they are often basically a cross between a prison and a shit hole. They have mold problems, theft problems, highly constraining rules that middle class would not accept to get housing themselves (such as curfews), etc. Yes, cities like San Francisco that are trying to not be monstrously uncompassionate and trying to avoid the evils of criminalizing poverty are all too often doing things that don't actually resolve the issue and tend to help entrench it. I'm the author of the piece under discussion. Before I was homeless, I was studying to become an urban planner. I've researched this problem space for at least two decades. I'm trying to come up with actual solutions that can help make a real difference. Some of the things I would like to see: 1. More SROs and Missing Middle housing. 2. More walkable and bike-friendly communities and better public transit so cars stop being a necessity in the US and lack of a car stops being a huge barrier to having a middle class life at all. 3. More flexible employment for people who don't fit in to "regular jobs" and better programs for helping such "misfits" find employment that makes sense for them. 4. A real solution to America's health care issues which are a huge financial burden for far too many people and a factor that helps push some people out into the street.