7 ms·

When Introverts Act Like Extraverts (and Vice Versa)

85 points by laurex 7y ago

maverick2007 7y ago
One thing I don't see mentioned very much is that introversion/extroversion is a very different axis from shyness/outgoingness. I feel like these two axes get conflated really often (like in this article) but they really are two different things. I'm an introvert, I get energy being alone, but when I need to I can be very outgoing and make small talk and all of the things that introverts supposedly hate. I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards. On the other hand I've had friends that got energy from others but tended to be a wallflower (for lack of a better term) when they were around others. I hope people recognize it's more subtle of a distinction than just introvert/extrovert and don't let their self chosen label define them.
- nooyurrsdey 7y ago
  I agree l but it's literally the number one point I expect to see when this topic comes up. Everyone and their mother is quick to point out that the two axes are different
- vinay427 7y ago
  I wasn't aware of and failed to draw this distinction until I read Quiet Power by Susan Cain. A wonderful book for anyone interested that really helped me understand that introversion is not inherently undesirable, but also how to distinguish shyness to avoid falling into that trap, as this can be undesirable.
- anderspitman 7y ago
  Yep. I was introduced to this two-axis model several years ago, and it's been very helpful for me to understand my own personality and energy flow.
- wgerard 7y ago
  > I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards Yes! The way I've started explaining this to people is it's like going to the gym: I like going to the gym. I make sure to go to the gym regularly. But I can't spend all day at the gym, and if I spend many hours at the gym I'm going to be very sore and tired and need a day or two off.
  - flatline 7y ago
    Good analogy, and I find it slightly ironic, because the introvert will go to the gym, focus for an hour, and be tired out, while the extrovert will go to the gym, talk to people half the time, and not put in nearly as heavy a workout...
- mlthoughts2018 7y ago
  This is also a big area where I think there may genuinely be discrimination in the workplace. Employers try to conflate introversion with shyness because they can more easily defend the idea that outgoing behavior is required for adequate performance of a role. If they can systematically avoid hiring introverted people because “they’re shy” then they are less likely to be forced to make workplace concessions that allow introverts the mental bandwidth needed to recharge and engage in outgoing behavior (which they may be quite good at). For example, I think this is a major contributor to the perpetuation of open-plan office layouts, which are quite actively harmful to introverts.
  - borski 7y ago
    To be fair, there are certain roles for which extroversion actually is beneficial. Specifically, sales. The ability to be always on is definitely an asset to a sales executive. Also, I don’t think this has anything to do with open-office layouts. There’s a much, much simpler reason for that: it’s way cheaper. Having individual (or shared) offices costs way more - you need doors, lots of walls, lots of construction, etc. for an open office space? All you need is tables, chairs, and headphones. Way cheaper. Maybe not more productive (there are arguments to be made in either direction here, though I suspect I know which direction your argument will take), but definitely much cheaper.
    - hinkley 7y ago
      A this point I’d love to go back to proper cubicles, with 5 ft high walls. But even those are expensive. I wonder if there are ways to lower the costs.
      - me_me_me 7y ago
        > I wonder if there are ways to lower the costs Lower the cubicles' walls to 1-2 ft and made them out of frosted glass (added bonus if the glass amplifies noise). /s
    - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
      This is bigotry pure and simple. It’s so sad that it’s socially acceptable to talk about introversion this way, and it will never undergo an advent like sexual orientation or gender to be seen as a protected class so that you can’t discriminate against introverted people like this. Separately, open plan offices are not cheaper, not even in dense urban areas. They only appear cheaper in a very narrow, very short term sense that ultimately loses money overall. I’d also add that I’ve worked in a company before that actively paid tens of millions of dollars to completely rip out private offices from a large Columbus, OH, campus where only corporate HR employees (who had offices for decades and sincerely needed private offices for their work), even though the staff was not growing in Columbus and there was no plan to increase worker seating density. The CEO just decreed “innovative people love open spaces” and that’s all. On my exit interview from that company, a woman who had worked 25 years in HR at the company was telling me how she needs to talk to people who are being laid off, or giving specifics about medical leave or grief leave for a death in the family, stuff that requires privacy. She had her own office for the past 13 years, and now she was relegated to competing for 15-minute slices of time in Jabbrbox-like phone booths which couldn’t serve the full needs of the staff. Open plan offices are not at all chosen to save money. It’s a combination of status signalling, trend following and surveillance culture. Absolutely not about saving money.
- Stupulous 7y ago
  There is a sort of common knowledge definition of introversion that involves 'recharging' while alone, but it's not a dictionary definition, and it's not an academic definition. The dictionary will just say shyness, while academic sources are a little more nuanced, generally circling 'unsociable' or 'not attention-seeking' or 'experiencing fewer positive sensations'. I'm very much an introvert, but if I spend a few days without human contact, I start to come apart. I expect extraverts encounter in long-term social contact the exhaustion I experience in the short-to-medium term. Further, I find that I can have extensive conversations with individuals I know well without needing to recharge whatsoever. There's something to the notion of feeling drained in either scenario, but it isn't boolean or single-factor. Myers-Briggs asks about recharging, but you can say you experience nothing of the sort and still wind up with an 'I'. It is an adjacent effect, but not neccesarily core to what is being measured there. All in all, while recharging is certainly an existent related element and worth discussing, it doesn't make sense to criticize the article for conflating two terms that are academically the same thing. Personality psychology is very underdeveloped. Probably personalities shift minute to minute on thousands of axes, and while Big 5 tests can be helpful for modeling and understanding your own behavior, you have to recognize them as massively oversimplifying an 86 billion neuron network. They are potentially a serious limiting factor on how one defines oneself.
twerkinggumby 7y ago
More inane pseudoscience about the moronic introvert/extrovert dichotomy. A two week study with 130 students and we’re supposed to learn something? Change our behavior? This is just astrology for people who love Ted talks.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >A two week study with 130 students and we’re supposed to learn something? Of course not. Merely a study, done by professionals, and involving 130 students? As everybody knows the real way to learn something needs a snark layman comment with a facile dismissal!
- pavel_lishin 7y ago
  > the moronic introvert/extrovert dichotomy Why is that dichotomy moronic?
  - tokai 7y ago
    There is no scientific foundation for it. Jung dreamt it up with an extremely literary approach. Then the swindlers Briggs and Myers popularised it with their 20th century astrology.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      The introversion-extraversion personality axis is the only part of the MBTI that modern psychometrics accepts basically without reservation. It lives on as the introversion-extraversion factor of the Big 5 Personality Model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits I find it interesting that the rest of the MBTI is so thoroughly rejected -- in particular, I read in work that accepts the MBTI (uh-oh, red flag!) that males tend to split 75% T / 25% F and females do the reverse, 75% F / 25% T. It seems to me that this very large difference in responses should be sufficient to show that the T / F axis is capturing something. If the T / F distinction were meaningless, it wouldn't be able to predict anything, but it clearly can predict the respondent's sex.
20years 7y ago
Trying to force introverts into pro-longed extroversion is exhausting. It is not how we are built. I think oftentimes people view introverts as anti-social, which is not always the case. We are just differently social. Instead of trying to force introverts to be more like extroverts, encourage them to share their skills/talents in a positive way. This is where you will see us shine and you might even forget that we are introverts. Throwing us into a party with 100 strangers and expecting us to thrive, is not gonna do it. Asking us to teach a large group of strangers something valuable or lead a project that we know a lot about will energize us like nothing else. This is how we connect with people and how we make our mark in society. A lot of introverts are quiet leaders and have a way of making a huge impact in ways that extroverts just don't understand. Don't get me wrong, I love the extroverts in my life, but I don't want to be like them :)
- tehlike 7y ago
  I think I agree with you. I am an introvert, but have vast variety of interest in science, technology, startups etc. I don't like at all to do small talk with friends, i get bored and tired really fast, unless the topic hits one of these areas. I liked to socialize on forums on programming, and made a bunch of friends sincr when i was in middle school or high school that way. I gave a bunch of talks and raised enthusiasm on some programming concepts back in the day. Everything else was too boring.
  - anyfoo 7y ago
    I'm an extrovert, and I am also interested in "science" and "technology" (but not startups). One of my primary hobbies is very math-heavy, and involves hours and sometimes days of intense focus. I also gave talks in the past, e.g. on functional programming. The point is, I have no idea how any of this is related to being introvert or extrovert (and was wondering the same in the post you replied to). People can shut themselves into their room with only oscilloscopes and MATLAB as company on one weekend, and meet up with friends on the next one.
- mrob 7y ago
  Exactly. Trying to force extroversion on introverts because it makes them "feel happier" is like pressuring them to take recreational drugs, which will likely have similar short-term success.
foobar_ 7y ago
Humans are not that different from animals but surprisingly show mixed behaviours, unlike other animal species. Are we even one species and not many subspecies pretending to be one? A cooperator engages prey both when it is alone or with a companion. Most common behaviour of extroverts. A cheater only engages when it is the first to find prey, but lets another individual make the kill if it arrives second. The author of the article in this case. Plenty of extrovert cheaters too pretend to read books by citing cliff notes. Ambiverts I suppose. A scavenger and a solitary hunter never hunts and waits for another individual to make a kill. A solitary avoids others and always hunts alone. Dangerous l33t hackers on the loose. Taken from https://doi.org/10.1086/284844 https://doi.org/10.1086/284844
jasode 7y ago
I'm an introvert and this writer (though well-intentioned) completely misunderstands what introversion _is_. A sample of his misleading analysis: >, this framework rests on the unspoken assumption that introverts and extroverts remain constant in their identities. [...] What if that weren’t true? What if we could deliberately act more one way other the other? >That is: am I promoting extraversion simply because I’m an extravert? The answer is: I am a little bit of both. [...] I think we’re all a bit of both. No, introversion is not how one voluntarily acts in solitude for a little while and if that same person is later eating lunch with friends, he does not become an extrovert. And no, you can't be "a little bit of both". The way I like to explain introversion vs extroversion is it's an underlying personality trait that doesn't change such as being left-handed or right-handed. When we say we're "right-handed", that "right-handedness" trait doesn't go away just because we play the low bass notes on the piano with the left hand, or flick the turn signal levers of the car steering with our left hand. Just because right-handed people use their left hands some of the time for many tasks doesn't mean they are a "little bit of both". Our category of "left-handed" vs "right-handed" is specifically labeling the underlying tendency of which limb is favored and not about the cherry-picked tasks that use the opposite limb. I've been to hundreds of parties and yes I do hang out with friends from time to time. I'm still an introvert. I'm not a little bit of both. The author's article does more harm than good in understanding what true introversion actually is.
- solinent 7y ago
  It's definitely not a simple categorization like that though--some people are so introverted they almost need to completely isolate themselves from society. Some people are barely introverted and require just a little time alone to gather themselves occasionally. I'm definitely both--I've had periods of my life where I can't detach myself from groups of people, and I've had periods of my life where I spend multiple days inside without going out. There are definitely some environmental factors. Introversion is tied in with neuroticism, which is definitely on a spectrum. The big five personality traits are also a spectrum.
  - jasode 7y ago
    >Some people are barely introverted and require just a little time alone to gather themselves occasionally. If the behavior is occasional, that's not introversion or "barely introverted". E.g., if an extroverted-outgoing girl who is the cheerleader & prom queen & organizer of the 10-year high school renunion needs a few hours of alone time in her bedroom to cry because her boyfriend broke up with her, that does not mean the cheerleader is "barely introverted". She's also not 1% introverted and 99% extroverted. Sure, all humans need some alone time for various situations. But that's not what introversion _is_. And just because I attend social functions and smile and laugh with friends for a few hours doesn't mean I'm "somewhat extroverted". My baseline is introversion and even if I do activities that outwardly appear like extroversion, that does not change the baseline of my underlying tendencies. I have been playing the lower bass notes of the piano with my left hand for decades but that doesn't change my underlying right-handedness. My right hand is still the dominant hand.
Insanity 7y ago
Coincidentally I started reading 'Quiet' this week. Really recommend it, interesting book!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mmexican 7y ago
vem grant 10000,0000 million. tu.vem grant porfavor tu iamlatin@yahoo.com fleet.ford.com vem grant porfavor mi cullar say bigcattracks.com vem grants porfavor mi victum porfavor
- mmexican 7y ago
  y mbusa.com vem el grant porfavor
sn41 7y ago
I guess one test of introversion is whether being in a group is invigorating or tiring. I am tired after interacting with most groups except with my closest friends.
mnd999 7y ago
The author references Quiet, which is a great read but it doesn’t seem like they understood it at all.
rhizome 7y ago
This reads like a jumble of fragmented maybes. The first thing that bugs me is the casual spelling of "extravert," where "extrovert" is the common spelling unless you're referring specifically to the Jungian interpretation of the trait(s). The second thing that bugs me is the "acts like" construction. The students in the experiment were indeed acting when they explicitly adopted traits they don't usually express for a period of time, but to also use "acting" throughout the rest of the essay as a fundamental organizing principle is to assume a person's motivations absent evidence, vs. sometihng like "appears to," which maintains the relationship that a person's motivations are a matter of interpretation by the observer. He gives a nod to neuroplasticity toward the end, which...fine, but it appears to be a euphemism for "nobody is really anything" when balanced against the rest of the text.
randomsearch 7y ago
What’s the supporting scientific evidence for the idea of an introversion-extroversion personality trait?
- 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
  Extraversion is one of the "Big Five" personality traits [1]. As far as I understand it, this means that it's been verified that it empirically exists as an independent-ish variable based on statistical analysis, but it's also not based on any underlying psychological or neurological model that's been independently validated. Also, the descriptions of this variable in Big Five literature don't always match popular ideas about what the term means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
  - randomsearch 7y ago
    That covers about all I’ve heard too. Wonder how solid / convincing / replicable that really is.
Invictus0 7y ago
I don't think there is really anything substantive in this article, but if there is one thing we can learn from it, it's that we need to be much more clear what we're talking about when we use the words introvert and extrovert. I prefer the definition that introverts gain energy from being alone, and extroverts gain energy from being with others. People often make the mistake of coupling other things to this: shyness and introversion tend to be associated, and it leads to people saying things like "I'm an introvert there I can't (it's impossible) be a good socializer". The fact that introversion/extroversion is a spectrum certainly doesn't do us any favors either.
clairity 7y ago
this seems pretty straightforward. "introvert" and "extrovert" are grammatical traps that lead to fallacious reasoning, because these are not things that we are. introversion and extroversion are just groupings of behaviors we each exhibit based on social context. sure, some people tend to skew one way or another statistically, but it's not an intinsic attribute. (it's more interesting to examine the specific situations in which one exhibits one or the other set of behaviors.)

85 points by laurex 7y ago

maverick2007 7y ago

One thing I don't see mentioned very much is that introversion/extroversion is a very different axis from shyness/outgoingness. I feel like these two axes get conflated really often (like in this article) but they really are two different things. I'm an introvert, I get energy being alone, but when I need to I can be very outgoing and make small talk and all of the things that introverts supposedly hate. I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards. On the other hand I've had friends that got energy from others but tended to be a wallflower (for lack of a better term) when they were around others. I hope people recognize it's more subtle of a distinction than just introvert/extrovert and don't let their self chosen label define them.

nooyurrsdey 7y ago
I agree l but it's literally the number one point I expect to see when this topic comes up. Everyone and their mother is quick to point out that the two axes are different
vinay427 7y ago
I wasn't aware of and failed to draw this distinction until I read Quiet Power by Susan Cain. A wonderful book for anyone interested that really helped me understand that introversion is not inherently undesirable, but also how to distinguish shyness to avoid falling into that trap, as this can be undesirable.
anderspitman 7y ago
Yep. I was introduced to this two-axis model several years ago, and it's been very helpful for me to understand my own personality and energy flow.
wgerard 7y ago
> I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards Yes! The way I've started explaining this to people is it's like going to the gym: I like going to the gym. I make sure to go to the gym regularly. But I can't spend all day at the gym, and if I spend many hours at the gym I'm going to be very sore and tired and need a day or two off.
- flatline 7y ago
  Good analogy, and I find it slightly ironic, because the introvert will go to the gym, focus for an hour, and be tired out, while the extrovert will go to the gym, talk to people half the time, and not put in nearly as heavy a workout...
mlthoughts2018 7y ago
This is also a big area where I think there may genuinely be discrimination in the workplace. Employers try to conflate introversion with shyness because they can more easily defend the idea that outgoing behavior is required for adequate performance of a role. If they can systematically avoid hiring introverted people because “they’re shy” then they are less likely to be forced to make workplace concessions that allow introverts the mental bandwidth needed to recharge and engage in outgoing behavior (which they may be quite good at). For example, I think this is a major contributor to the perpetuation of open-plan office layouts, which are quite actively harmful to introverts.
- borski 7y ago
  To be fair, there are certain roles for which extroversion actually is beneficial. Specifically, sales. The ability to be always on is definitely an asset to a sales executive. Also, I don’t think this has anything to do with open-office layouts. There’s a much, much simpler reason for that: it’s way cheaper. Having individual (or shared) offices costs way more - you need doors, lots of walls, lots of construction, etc. for an open office space? All you need is tables, chairs, and headphones. Way cheaper. Maybe not more productive (there are arguments to be made in either direction here, though I suspect I know which direction your argument will take), but definitely much cheaper.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    A this point I’d love to go back to proper cubicles, with 5 ft high walls. But even those are expensive. I wonder if there are ways to lower the costs.
    - me_me_me 7y ago
      > I wonder if there are ways to lower the costs Lower the cubicles' walls to 1-2 ft and made them out of frosted glass (added bonus if the glass amplifies noise). /s
  - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
    This is bigotry pure and simple. It’s so sad that it’s socially acceptable to talk about introversion this way, and it will never undergo an advent like sexual orientation or gender to be seen as a protected class so that you can’t discriminate against introverted people like this. Separately, open plan offices are not cheaper, not even in dense urban areas. They only appear cheaper in a very narrow, very short term sense that ultimately loses money overall. I’d also add that I’ve worked in a company before that actively paid tens of millions of dollars to completely rip out private offices from a large Columbus, OH, campus where only corporate HR employees (who had offices for decades and sincerely needed private offices for their work), even though the staff was not growing in Columbus and there was no plan to increase worker seating density. The CEO just decreed “innovative people love open spaces” and that’s all. On my exit interview from that company, a woman who had worked 25 years in HR at the company was telling me how she needs to talk to people who are being laid off, or giving specifics about medical leave or grief leave for a death in the family, stuff that requires privacy. She had her own office for the past 13 years, and now she was relegated to competing for 15-minute slices of time in Jabbrbox-like phone booths which couldn’t serve the full needs of the staff. Open plan offices are not at all chosen to save money. It’s a combination of status signalling, trend following and surveillance culture. Absolutely not about saving money.
Stupulous 7y ago
There is a sort of common knowledge definition of introversion that involves 'recharging' while alone, but it's not a dictionary definition, and it's not an academic definition. The dictionary will just say shyness, while academic sources are a little more nuanced, generally circling 'unsociable' or 'not attention-seeking' or 'experiencing fewer positive sensations'. I'm very much an introvert, but if I spend a few days without human contact, I start to come apart. I expect extraverts encounter in long-term social contact the exhaustion I experience in the short-to-medium term. Further, I find that I can have extensive conversations with individuals I know well without needing to recharge whatsoever. There's something to the notion of feeling drained in either scenario, but it isn't boolean or single-factor. Myers-Briggs asks about recharging, but you can say you experience nothing of the sort and still wind up with an 'I'. It is an adjacent effect, but not neccesarily core to what is being measured there. All in all, while recharging is certainly an existent related element and worth discussing, it doesn't make sense to criticize the article for conflating two terms that are academically the same thing. Personality psychology is very underdeveloped. Probably personalities shift minute to minute on thousands of axes, and while Big 5 tests can be helpful for modeling and understanding your own behavior, you have to recognize them as massively oversimplifying an 86 billion neuron network. They are potentially a serious limiting factor on how one defines oneself.

twerkinggumby 7y ago

More inane pseudoscience about the moronic introvert/extrovert dichotomy. A two week study with 130 students and we’re supposed to learn something? Change our behavior? This is just astrology for people who love Ted talks.

coldtea 7y ago
>A two week study with 130 students and we’re supposed to learn something? Of course not. Merely a study, done by professionals, and involving 130 students? As everybody knows the real way to learn something needs a snark layman comment with a facile dismissal!
pavel_lishin 7y ago
> the moronic introvert/extrovert dichotomy Why is that dichotomy moronic?
- tokai 7y ago
  There is no scientific foundation for it. Jung dreamt it up with an extremely literary approach. Then the swindlers Briggs and Myers popularised it with their 20th century astrology.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    The introversion-extraversion personality axis is the only part of the MBTI that modern psychometrics accepts basically without reservation. It lives on as the introversion-extraversion factor of the Big 5 Personality Model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits I find it interesting that the rest of the MBTI is so thoroughly rejected -- in particular, I read in work that accepts the MBTI (uh-oh, red flag!) that males tend to split 75% T / 25% F and females do the reverse, 75% F / 25% T. It seems to me that this very large difference in responses should be sufficient to show that the T / F axis is capturing something. If the T / F distinction were meaningless, it wouldn't be able to predict anything, but it clearly can predict the respondent's sex.

20years 7y ago

Trying to force introverts into pro-longed extroversion is exhausting. It is not how we are built. I think oftentimes people view introverts as anti-social, which is not always the case. We are just differently social. Instead of trying to force introverts to be more like extroverts, encourage them to share their skills/talents in a positive way. This is where you will see us shine and you might even forget that we are introverts. Throwing us into a party with 100 strangers and expecting us to thrive, is not gonna do it. Asking us to teach a large group of strangers something valuable or lead a project that we know a lot about will energize us like nothing else. This is how we connect with people and how we make our mark in society. A lot of introverts are quiet leaders and have a way of making a huge impact in ways that extroverts just don't understand. Don't get me wrong, I love the extroverts in my life, but I don't want to be like them :)

tehlike 7y ago
I think I agree with you. I am an introvert, but have vast variety of interest in science, technology, startups etc. I don't like at all to do small talk with friends, i get bored and tired really fast, unless the topic hits one of these areas. I liked to socialize on forums on programming, and made a bunch of friends sincr when i was in middle school or high school that way. I gave a bunch of talks and raised enthusiasm on some programming concepts back in the day. Everything else was too boring.
- anyfoo 7y ago
  I'm an extrovert, and I am also interested in "science" and "technology" (but not startups). One of my primary hobbies is very math-heavy, and involves hours and sometimes days of intense focus. I also gave talks in the past, e.g. on functional programming. The point is, I have no idea how any of this is related to being introvert or extrovert (and was wondering the same in the post you replied to). People can shut themselves into their room with only oscilloscopes and MATLAB as company on one weekend, and meet up with friends on the next one.
mrob 7y ago
Exactly. Trying to force extroversion on introverts because it makes them "feel happier" is like pressuring them to take recreational drugs, which will likely have similar short-term success.

foobar_ 7y ago

Humans are not that different from animals but surprisingly show mixed behaviours, unlike other animal species. Are we even one species and not many subspecies pretending to be one? A cooperator engages prey both when it is alone or with a companion. Most common behaviour of extroverts. A cheater only engages when it is the first to find prey, but lets another individual make the kill if it arrives second. The author of the article in this case. Plenty of extrovert cheaters too pretend to read books by citing cliff notes. Ambiverts I suppose. A scavenger and a solitary hunter never hunts and waits for another individual to make a kill. A solitary avoids others and always hunts alone. Dangerous l33t hackers on the loose. Taken from https://doi.org/10.1086/284844 https://doi.org/10.1086/284844

jasode 7y ago

I'm an introvert and this writer (though well-intentioned) completely misunderstands what introversion _is_. A sample of his misleading analysis: >, this framework rests on the unspoken assumption that introverts and extroverts remain constant in their identities. [...] What if that weren’t true? What if we could deliberately act more one way other the other? >That is: am I promoting extraversion simply because I’m an extravert? The answer is: I am a little bit of both. [...] I think we’re all a bit of both. No, introversion is not how one voluntarily acts in solitude for a little while and if that same person is later eating lunch with friends, he does not become an extrovert. And no, you can't be "a little bit of both". The way I like to explain introversion vs extroversion is it's an underlying personality trait that doesn't change such as being left-handed or right-handed. When we say we're "right-handed", that "right-handedness" trait doesn't go away just because we play the low bass notes on the piano with the left hand, or flick the turn signal levers of the car steering with our left hand. Just because right-handed people use their left hands some of the time for many tasks doesn't mean they are a "little bit of both". Our category of "left-handed" vs "right-handed" is specifically labeling the underlying tendency of which limb is favored and not about the cherry-picked tasks that use the opposite limb. I've been to hundreds of parties and yes I do hang out with friends from time to time. I'm still an introvert. I'm not a little bit of both. The author's article does more harm than good in understanding what true introversion actually is.

solinent 7y ago
It's definitely not a simple categorization like that though--some people are so introverted they almost need to completely isolate themselves from society. Some people are barely introverted and require just a little time alone to gather themselves occasionally. I'm definitely both--I've had periods of my life where I can't detach myself from groups of people, and I've had periods of my life where I spend multiple days inside without going out. There are definitely some environmental factors. Introversion is tied in with neuroticism, which is definitely on a spectrum. The big five personality traits are also a spectrum.
- jasode 7y ago
  >Some people are barely introverted and require just a little time alone to gather themselves occasionally. If the behavior is occasional, that's not introversion or "barely introverted". E.g., if an extroverted-outgoing girl who is the cheerleader & prom queen & organizer of the 10-year high school renunion needs a few hours of alone time in her bedroom to cry because her boyfriend broke up with her, that does not mean the cheerleader is "barely introverted". She's also not 1% introverted and 99% extroverted. Sure, all humans need some alone time for various situations. But that's not what introversion _is_. And just because I attend social functions and smile and laugh with friends for a few hours doesn't mean I'm "somewhat extroverted". My baseline is introversion and even if I do activities that outwardly appear like extroversion, that does not change the baseline of my underlying tendencies. I have been playing the lower bass notes of the piano with my left hand for decades but that doesn't change my underlying right-handedness. My right hand is still the dominant hand.

Insanity 7y ago

Coincidentally I started reading 'Quiet' this week. Really recommend it, interesting book!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mmexican 7y ago

vem grant 10000,0000 million. tu.vem grant porfavor tu iamlatin@yahoo.com fleet.ford.com vem grant porfavor mi cullar say bigcattracks.com vem grants porfavor mi victum porfavor

mmexican 7y ago
y mbusa.com vem el grant porfavor

sn41 7y ago

I guess one test of introversion is whether being in a group is invigorating or tiring. I am tired after interacting with most groups except with my closest friends.

mnd999 7y ago

The author references Quiet, which is a great read but it doesn’t seem like they understood it at all.

rhizome 7y ago

This reads like a jumble of fragmented maybes. The first thing that bugs me is the casual spelling of "extravert," where "extrovert" is the common spelling unless you're referring specifically to the Jungian interpretation of the trait(s). The second thing that bugs me is the "acts like" construction. The students in the experiment were indeed acting when they explicitly adopted traits they don't usually express for a period of time, but to also use "acting" throughout the rest of the essay as a fundamental organizing principle is to assume a person's motivations absent evidence, vs. sometihng like "appears to," which maintains the relationship that a person's motivations are a matter of interpretation by the observer. He gives a nod to neuroplasticity toward the end, which...fine, but it appears to be a euphemism for "nobody is really anything" when balanced against the rest of the text.

randomsearch 7y ago

What’s the supporting scientific evidence for the idea of an introversion-extroversion personality trait?

0xcde4c3db 7y ago
Extraversion is one of the "Big Five" personality traits [1]. As far as I understand it, this means that it's been verified that it empirically exists as an independent-ish variable based on statistical analysis, but it's also not based on any underlying psychological or neurological model that's been independently validated. Also, the descriptions of this variable in Big Five literature don't always match popular ideas about what the term means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
- randomsearch 7y ago
  That covers about all I’ve heard too. Wonder how solid / convincing / replicable that really is.

Invictus0 7y ago

I don't think there is really anything substantive in this article, but if there is one thing we can learn from it, it's that we need to be much more clear what we're talking about when we use the words introvert and extrovert. I prefer the definition that introverts gain energy from being alone, and extroverts gain energy from being with others. People often make the mistake of coupling other things to this: shyness and introversion tend to be associated, and it leads to people saying things like "I'm an introvert there I can't (it's impossible) be a good socializer". The fact that introversion/extroversion is a spectrum certainly doesn't do us any favors either.

clairity 7y ago

this seems pretty straightforward. "introvert" and "extrovert" are grammatical traps that lead to fallacious reasoning, because these are not things that we are. introversion and extroversion are just groupings of behaviors we each exhibit based on social context. sure, some people tend to skew one way or another statistically, but it's not an intinsic attribute. (it's more interesting to examine the specific situations in which one exhibits one or the other set of behaviors.)