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Having a default vs needing to understand all of this? Do you believe you are selecting the path of least resistance? How many defaults in systems do you use

Having a default vs needing to understand all of this? Do you believe you are selecting the path of least resistance? How many defaults in systems do you use today so you aren't configuring the dials and knobs of a spaceship everytime you power on. Using Cloudflare as a default vs the ISP's defaults. If you care you can learn and change them the same way we operate today. The browser is a product, UX wins. How do I make my product easy to use while still maintaining a security forward stance? Defaults.

mcnichol 7y ago
> However, we’ve spent time studying these risks… and we have negotiating power. We worked hard to find a company to work with us to protect users’ DNS data. And we found one: Cloudflare. > Cloudflare is providing a recursive resolution service with a pro-user privacy policy. They have committed to throwing away all personally identifiable data after 24 hours, and to never pass that data along to third-parties. And there will be regular audits to ensure that data is being cleared as expected. I think this is a fair and reasonable reason to land on Cloudflare if they are willing to cooperate in interest of the user and make their organization open to audits aligned to that. I don't understand the hyped up hate on picking a default who is appearing to be going over the top as an ally for end users privacy, users aren't forced into staying with, and would be an arguably more transparent starting point than what people have today.
- user72628 7y ago
  If I'm forced to choose I'll choose Cloudfair. At least they don't read my email
- belorn 7y ago
  Reading what cloudflare sells, people who have a domains on Cloudflare and buy Pro, Business and Enterprise plan have access to DNS analytics that displays DNS queries from Cloudflares DNS servers, including geographic information. Personally I don't see how that product can coexist with the privacy policy.
  - elithrar 7y ago
    > Reading what cloudflare sells, people who have a domains on Cloudflare and buy Pro, Business and Enterprise plan have access to DNS analytics that displays DNS queries from Cloudflares DNS servers, including geographic information. Those analytics are for authoritative queries against the domain(s) that you have on Cloudflare; not for queries to any domain. Not logging _recursive_ queries against their public resolvers - and it's those recursive queries from end-users that hold the biggest risk to user privacy - is an entirely different thing, and these two systems can co-exist.
    - belorn 7y ago
      The distinction between authoritative and recursive queries is not meaningful in the context of DoH since that protocol is only about recursive servers. A user who connect to cloudflare through DoH is connecting through a recursive server, and knowing that the privacy policy say no logs, is unlikely to expect that logs are kept if the domain owner happens to be a customer of cloudflare. Cloudflare could do as google and not include any query that comes via the public resolver. Any DoH query would thus be a blackhole in regard to analytics and only display data from users who used someone else recursive resolver for the query. In that way no logs from the public DNS resolver ever ends up as data, the privacy document is followed, and companies can not buy query data by becoming customers to Cloudflare.

mcnichol 7y ago

> However, we’ve spent time studying these risks… and we have negotiating power. We worked hard to find a company to work with us to protect users’ DNS data. And we found one: Cloudflare. > Cloudflare is providing a recursive resolution service with a pro-user privacy policy. They have committed to throwing away all personally identifiable data after 24 hours, and to never pass that data along to third-parties. And there will be regular audits to ensure that data is being cleared as expected. I think this is a fair and reasonable reason to land on Cloudflare if they are willing to cooperate in interest of the user and make their organization open to audits aligned to that. I don't understand the hyped up hate on picking a default who is appearing to be going over the top as an ally for end users privacy, users aren't forced into staying with, and would be an arguably more transparent starting point than what people have today.

user72628 7y ago
If I'm forced to choose I'll choose Cloudfair. At least they don't read my email
belorn 7y ago
Reading what cloudflare sells, people who have a domains on Cloudflare and buy Pro, Business and Enterprise plan have access to DNS analytics that displays DNS queries from Cloudflares DNS servers, including geographic information. Personally I don't see how that product can coexist with the privacy policy.
- elithrar 7y ago
  > Reading what cloudflare sells, people who have a domains on Cloudflare and buy Pro, Business and Enterprise plan have access to DNS analytics that displays DNS queries from Cloudflares DNS servers, including geographic information. Those analytics are for authoritative queries against the domain(s) that you have on Cloudflare; not for queries to any domain. Not logging _recursive_ queries against their public resolvers - and it's those recursive queries from end-users that hold the biggest risk to user privacy - is an entirely different thing, and these two systems can co-exist.
  - belorn 7y ago
    The distinction between authoritative and recursive queries is not meaningful in the context of DoH since that protocol is only about recursive servers. A user who connect to cloudflare through DoH is connecting through a recursive server, and knowing that the privacy policy say no logs, is unlikely to expect that logs are kept if the domain owner happens to be a customer of cloudflare. Cloudflare could do as google and not include any query that comes via the public resolver. Any DoH query would thus be a blackhole in regard to analytics and only display data from users who used someone else recursive resolver for the query. In that way no logs from the public DNS resolver ever ends up as data, the privacy document is followed, and companies can not buy query data by becoming customers to Cloudflare.