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I like the idea, but I don't think there's any cost savings here compared to a smart TV due to the lower volume and a relatively low incremental cost of adding

I like the idea, but I don't think there's any cost savings here compared to a smart TV due to the lower volume and a relatively low incremental cost of adding in "smart" hardware and ports and speakers to every tv. It's tough to say without knowing the exact panel, but looking at the specs (55", 4k, TFT) something comparable would be around $300-400.

didgeoridoo 7y ago
Adding “smart” hardware & software into a TV is negative incremental cost, because they make a profit selling your viewing information. Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  > Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this. I wonder how many people have knowledge of shady crap like this but don't speak out because of shame or fear.
- basch 7y ago
  They track your viewing information from an hdmi source? I would hope most budget tvs decoding and analyzing the video to determine whats playing.
  - c256 7y ago
    Yes, they can. The most pernicious version literally sends compressed screenshots to their data-harvesting services. Compression can be pretty aggressive, since they only really want to figure out what you’re watching, and they have a full database. This process is essentially a hash-table of screen content; they can use compression on screenshots because that hardware codec is heavily optimized and quite cheap (witness mobile streaming video usage). I have no idea which vendors/models currently do this, but several have been caught doing it in the wild; it’s not just theoretical. Things like pi-holes and avoiding ever ‘activating’ your smart tv can help stop it, but if you want to use the built-in Netflix (etc) app, or look for firmware updates, or use a built in Roku or similar, then you’re usually either doing something complicated (routing rules, pi-hole, etc) or giving in to your tv collecting data on you.
    - basch 7y ago
      It would make a lot more sense to send the has database to the device. If I wanted to block the TV from connecting I'd blacklist the Mac address on my router, not pihole, and just unlock it to update. If they stored all my screenshots or hashes forever then I'd lose.
LukeShu 7y ago
The reason I'd be interested in something like this has nothing to do with the cost. Even though the "smart" part is obsolete, and it's entirely used with an external AppleTV/Roku/whatever, because of the "smart" crap, it takes longer to turn on than it takes my computer to boot. They didn't bother to make it compatible with universal remotes, because those wouldn't have access to the "smart" features, so you have to suffer through their incredibly crappy proprietary remote to select between inputs. The "smart" features track you and invade your privacy. I'm definitely willing to pay a premium for a well-made TV without "smart" crap. (But isn't that just a monitor?)
- jordanbeiber 7y ago
  Yeah, it’s a monitor, and that’s what I want as well. There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens, and they have even less features but cost at least twice as much as the suggested price of the ironcast. I still use my old LG dumb plasma, and there exists nothing like it on the market anymore, in terms of price/features (where no “smart” is a big feature for me).
  - phkahler 7y ago
    >> There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens 4k TVs look nice and are cheaper than monitors of similar width.
    - jordanbeiber 7y ago
      By “monitor” I mean a screen without a tuner or other features. The panels are pretty much the same in a commercial display screen/monitor as in a TV screen.

didgeoridoo 7y ago

Adding “smart” hardware & software into a TV is negative incremental cost, because they make a profit selling your viewing information. Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this.

cptskippy 7y ago
> Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this. I wonder how many people have knowledge of shady crap like this but don't speak out because of shame or fear.
basch 7y ago
They track your viewing information from an hdmi source? I would hope most budget tvs decoding and analyzing the video to determine whats playing.
- c256 7y ago
  Yes, they can. The most pernicious version literally sends compressed screenshots to their data-harvesting services. Compression can be pretty aggressive, since they only really want to figure out what you’re watching, and they have a full database. This process is essentially a hash-table of screen content; they can use compression on screenshots because that hardware codec is heavily optimized and quite cheap (witness mobile streaming video usage). I have no idea which vendors/models currently do this, but several have been caught doing it in the wild; it’s not just theoretical. Things like pi-holes and avoiding ever ‘activating’ your smart tv can help stop it, but if you want to use the built-in Netflix (etc) app, or look for firmware updates, or use a built in Roku or similar, then you’re usually either doing something complicated (routing rules, pi-hole, etc) or giving in to your tv collecting data on you.
  - basch 7y ago
    It would make a lot more sense to send the has database to the device. If I wanted to block the TV from connecting I'd blacklist the Mac address on my router, not pihole, and just unlock it to update. If they stored all my screenshots or hashes forever then I'd lose.

LukeShu 7y ago

The reason I'd be interested in something like this has nothing to do with the cost. Even though the "smart" part is obsolete, and it's entirely used with an external AppleTV/Roku/whatever, because of the "smart" crap, it takes longer to turn on than it takes my computer to boot. They didn't bother to make it compatible with universal remotes, because those wouldn't have access to the "smart" features, so you have to suffer through their incredibly crappy proprietary remote to select between inputs. The "smart" features track you and invade your privacy. I'm definitely willing to pay a premium for a well-made TV without "smart" crap. (But isn't that just a monitor?)

jordanbeiber 7y ago
Yeah, it’s a monitor, and that’s what I want as well. There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens, and they have even less features but cost at least twice as much as the suggested price of the ironcast. I still use my old LG dumb plasma, and there exists nothing like it on the market anymore, in terms of price/features (where no “smart” is a big feature for me).
- phkahler 7y ago
  >> There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens 4k TVs look nice and are cheaper than monitors of similar width.
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    By “monitor” I mean a screen without a tuner or other features. The panels are pretty much the same in a commercial display screen/monitor as in a TV screen.