5 ms·

I still have hopes that someday Vasalgel will make it to clinical trials in the US: https://www.parsemus.org/projects/vasalgel/ https://www.parsemus.org/projec

I still have hopes that someday Vasalgel will make it to clinical trials in the US: https://www.parsemus.org/projects/vasalgel/ https://www.parsemus.org/projects/vasalgel/ It's a one-application, reversible male contraceptive. "Application" is surgical, but not an involved one. If it ever makes it to the market, it seems like a much simpler, safer intervention, conceptually. Disclaimer: non-medical programmer, so I have no genuinely useful insights into this subject. Just a layperson making guesses.

kstenerud 7y ago
I've followed their (almost nonexistent) progress for a decade now, and even donated money. The problem is that there's simply no interest in the national seats of power for male contraceptives. Even female contraceptive technology moves at a glacial pace. The copper chain has been standard in Europe for over a decade now, but all you can get in the Americas is the much more dangerous copper coil (which can puncture the uterus). In fact, I doubt you've ever even heard of the copper chain. Even typing [copper chain contraceptive] into google brings up the familiar T-shaped copper coil device, not the free-hanging copper sleeved chain. You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. And BTW you can get the procedure done as a tourist for 300 euros. Safe contraception is not a difficult problem to solve (for men and women), but any politician pushing it would kill their career.
- kuerbel 7y ago
  I have a copper chain but it is by no means as safe as you think it is. My gyn no longer provides it because after 120 procedures he had one that went wrong: at first, everything seemed ok but two weeks later the woman had to go to the hospital because the chain ended up outside of the uterus - it had to be surgically removed. It almost punctured her intestines. He was very experienced with the procedure. He told me he talked to colleagues about that and that they were all shocked, but not about the fact that this happened - they where shocked that it only happened after 120 procedures and not sooner, like they experienced it. The main problem is that it is shot into the fundus, which can go terribly wrong. I definitely do not recommend to take it lightly. I don't think it is a good idea to do it as a tourist since the gyns at home are not trained to handle the chain. An alternative might be the copper ball though.
- BeanoBox 7y ago
  This may sound a bit consipiratory but I have wondered if the lack of support for effective long term male contraception is purposely because it's suspected that the birth rate would plummet and we would see huge population decline. As it is now there is still a high chance of unplanned pregnancies across the population and I wouldn't be surprised if they made up the bulk of children born. If men had an effective fire-and-forget long term contraceptive then unplanned pregnancies would be practically nonexistent.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. Seems that "copper pearls" (without the quotes) or "copper IUB" yield the result immediately, but both terms seem to be commercial in nature - I smell a slight attempt at rebranding going on.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
Immersing the testicles in 116 F water for 45 minutes a day for three weeks is significantly cheaper, and gives an undetectable sperm count for 6 months. It's honestly likely the best avenue for male birth control, the only problem is that it's impossible for a corporation to monetize so it's unlikely to get any sort of traction.
- untog 7y ago
  Something that involves 45 minutes of your time every day for three weeks, every six months... I don’t know if I would describe that as “the best avenue”. It’s not as if it’s something I can do while sat as my desk at work.
  - analognoise 7y ago
    You need more accommodating coworkers. If you can't take your testicles out and dip them into nearly-scalding water at your desk in the open-plan office, you need to do some trust falls at the next morale event.
    - untog 7y ago
      "How dare you disrespect my reproductive autonomy!"
  - fsiefken 7y ago
    you can work with an oculus go or quest and voice control if you keep your head above the water
  - taneq 7y ago
    If that's the only reason you're taking a bath, then sure. If you enjoy a good soak every now and then anyway, though, it can be a nice side effect (or an unwanted one, depending on your goals).
    - glass_of_water 7y ago
      I think a 116F tub is above what most anyone could tolerate for 45 minutes.
webninja 7y ago
I think they should take the Tesla (motors) approach and enter the market at a high price first and then slowly bring the price down over time to their intended goal levels. Sort of like how the first HIV prevention drug (PREP) is entering the market. I’ve donated a small amount to Parsemus and I would easily pay $5k for their $20 procedure but for whatever reason they haven’t made it to the market.
- smallnamespace 7y ago
  Perhaps that's the goal, however Model 3s cost as much as Model S's had on release, at least by how I see folks actually configuring them. I have yet to seen anything approaching the base 3 in the wild.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  It's not a problem of price, it's one of approval. There's a long road in the US to get regulatory approval for a surgical procedure that involves injecting a semi-permanent substance. Putting a compliant car on the road is a cakewalk in comparison.
dominotw 7y ago
No way in hell I am rubbing some chemicals on my balls. Why would this possibly be safer.
- rewq4321 7y ago
  Safer than what? What women currently have put up with?
  - dominotw 7y ago
    correct. I assume thats what gp meant by this > it seems like a much simpler, safer intervention
quotemstr 7y ago
The technique has been effective in India, AIUI. It appears to actually work. Our current regulatory apparatus is way too risk averse: look up horror stories surrounding IRB approval in biomedical research. (You need oversight for having people fill out a survey!) I understand the urge to protect people from various specific harms, but slow scientific progress is a harm all its own.

kstenerud 7y ago

I've followed their (almost nonexistent) progress for a decade now, and even donated money. The problem is that there's simply no interest in the national seats of power for male contraceptives. Even female contraceptive technology moves at a glacial pace. The copper chain has been standard in Europe for over a decade now, but all you can get in the Americas is the much more dangerous copper coil (which can puncture the uterus). In fact, I doubt you've ever even heard of the copper chain. Even typing [copper chain contraceptive] into google brings up the familiar T-shaped copper coil device, not the free-hanging copper sleeved chain. You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. And BTW you can get the procedure done as a tourist for 300 euros. Safe contraception is not a difficult problem to solve (for men and women), but any politician pushing it would kill their career.

kuerbel 7y ago
I have a copper chain but it is by no means as safe as you think it is. My gyn no longer provides it because after 120 procedures he had one that went wrong: at first, everything seemed ok but two weeks later the woman had to go to the hospital because the chain ended up outside of the uterus - it had to be surgically removed. It almost punctured her intestines. He was very experienced with the procedure. He told me he talked to colleagues about that and that they were all shocked, but not about the fact that this happened - they where shocked that it only happened after 120 procedures and not sooner, like they experienced it. The main problem is that it is shot into the fundus, which can go terribly wrong. I definitely do not recommend to take it lightly. I don't think it is a good idea to do it as a tourist since the gyns at home are not trained to handle the chain. An alternative might be the copper ball though.
BeanoBox 7y ago
This may sound a bit consipiratory but I have wondered if the lack of support for effective long term male contraception is purposely because it's suspected that the birth rate would plummet and we would see huge population decline. As it is now there is still a high chance of unplanned pregnancies across the population and I wouldn't be surprised if they made up the bulk of children born. If men had an effective fire-and-forget long term contraceptive then unplanned pregnancies would be practically nonexistent.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
> You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. Seems that "copper pearls" (without the quotes) or "copper IUB" yield the result immediately, but both terms seem to be commercial in nature - I smell a slight attempt at rebranding going on.

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

Immersing the testicles in 116 F water for 45 minutes a day for three weeks is significantly cheaper, and gives an undetectable sperm count for 6 months. It's honestly likely the best avenue for male birth control, the only problem is that it's impossible for a corporation to monetize so it's unlikely to get any sort of traction.

untog 7y ago
Something that involves 45 minutes of your time every day for three weeks, every six months... I don’t know if I would describe that as “the best avenue”. It’s not as if it’s something I can do while sat as my desk at work.
- analognoise 7y ago
  You need more accommodating coworkers. If you can't take your testicles out and dip them into nearly-scalding water at your desk in the open-plan office, you need to do some trust falls at the next morale event.
  - untog 7y ago
    "How dare you disrespect my reproductive autonomy!"
- fsiefken 7y ago
  you can work with an oculus go or quest and voice control if you keep your head above the water
- taneq 7y ago
  If that's the only reason you're taking a bath, then sure. If you enjoy a good soak every now and then anyway, though, it can be a nice side effect (or an unwanted one, depending on your goals).
  - glass_of_water 7y ago
    I think a 116F tub is above what most anyone could tolerate for 45 minutes.

webninja 7y ago

I think they should take the Tesla (motors) approach and enter the market at a high price first and then slowly bring the price down over time to their intended goal levels. Sort of like how the first HIV prevention drug (PREP) is entering the market. I’ve donated a small amount to Parsemus and I would easily pay $5k for their $20 procedure but for whatever reason they haven’t made it to the market.

smallnamespace 7y ago
Perhaps that's the goal, however Model 3s cost as much as Model S's had on release, at least by how I see folks actually configuring them. I have yet to seen anything approaching the base 3 in the wild.
mdorazio 7y ago
It's not a problem of price, it's one of approval. There's a long road in the US to get regulatory approval for a surgical procedure that involves injecting a semi-permanent substance. Putting a compliant car on the road is a cakewalk in comparison.

dominotw 7y ago

No way in hell I am rubbing some chemicals on my balls. Why would this possibly be safer.

rewq4321 7y ago
Safer than what? What women currently have put up with?
- dominotw 7y ago
  correct. I assume thats what gp meant by this > it seems like a much simpler, safer intervention

quotemstr 7y ago

The technique has been effective in India, AIUI. It appears to actually work. Our current regulatory apparatus is way too risk averse: look up horror stories surrounding IRB approval in biomedical research. (You need oversight for having people fill out a survey!) I understand the urge to protect people from various specific harms, but slow scientific progress is a harm all its own.