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> if a device could* function without such a backend it should be able to function without such a backend* How would the device receive security updates? Or is

> if a device could* function without such a backend it should be able to function without such a backend* How would the device receive security updates? Or is the hope/expectation that the device would have no security vulnerabilities? (That seems hopelessly naive.)

jacquesm 7y ago
If it is disconnected it does not require security updates. It only requires security updates when it is online (or is allowed to go online). Keep in mind that having a remote update process is a security risk in and of itself. So some people might want to opt out from such updates and firewall the device off entirely, if its functionality does not require a live internet connection this should be possible.
- tzs 7y ago
  > If it is disconnected it does not require security updates. It only requires security updates when it is online (or is allowed to go online). What about security bugs in a device's offline functionality? For example, imagine a keypad door lock. It can be configured online to add and remove unlock codes and to set schedules for automatic locking/unlocking, and then goes offline for normal operation. Suppose someone discovers that certain invalid input sequences will unlock it regardless of what codes are set. I'd say that's a security bug that requires a security update, even though what it is fixing is functionality that does not require or use an internet connection.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Whatever mechanism was used to upload the firmware in the first place could be exposed. Having a doorlock that can be configured online is asking for it. That's the kind of thing that will lead to headlines in regular news publications.
    - sml156 7y ago
      A quick Google search seems to suggest that smart doorlocks have ended up in the headlines since the late 2000's https://www.google.com/search?q=smart+door+lock+vulnerability&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&biw=1728&bih=874&sxsrf=ACYBGNQUjXe-2pPpcpqQDxdlhzaH8zRy7g%3A1571563882462&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019&tbm=nws https://www.google.com/search?q=smart+door+lock+vulnerabilit...
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Not at all unexpected.
tzs 7y ago
I'd like to see pretty much everything that uses electronics inlcude, unless its form factor is such that it is not practical, a USB-C port. I'd like to see this USB-C port used for two things. It's OK if it does more than these two things. I'm not just talking about IoT devices. I want this for my washing machine, my electric toothbrush, my vacuum cleaner...everything. 1. If you insert a formatted thumb drive that contains a directory with some magic, standardized name (e.g., "DEVICE_INFO"), the device creates a directory under that named after the device, and in that directory writes out a PDF of its manual, install guide, warranty info, and/or whatever other documentation comes with the device. It also writes a text file containing model number, serial number, manufacture date, version information, and stuff like that. 2. If you insert a formatted thumb drive that contains a directory with another magic, standardized name (e.g., "FIRMWARE_UPDATES"), which contains a sub-directory names after the device, the device looks in there for a firmware update file, and if it finds one that is applicable it applies it.

jacquesm 7y ago

If it is disconnected it does not require security updates. It only requires security updates when it is online (or is allowed to go online). Keep in mind that having a remote update process is a security risk in and of itself. So some people might want to opt out from such updates and firewall the device off entirely, if its functionality does not require a live internet connection this should be possible.

tzs 7y ago
> If it is disconnected it does not require security updates. It only requires security updates when it is online (or is allowed to go online). What about security bugs in a device's offline functionality? For example, imagine a keypad door lock. It can be configured online to add and remove unlock codes and to set schedules for automatic locking/unlocking, and then goes offline for normal operation. Suppose someone discovers that certain invalid input sequences will unlock it regardless of what codes are set. I'd say that's a security bug that requires a security update, even though what it is fixing is functionality that does not require or use an internet connection.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Whatever mechanism was used to upload the firmware in the first place could be exposed. Having a doorlock that can be configured online is asking for it. That's the kind of thing that will lead to headlines in regular news publications.
  - sml156 7y ago
    A quick Google search seems to suggest that smart doorlocks have ended up in the headlines since the late 2000's https://www.google.com/search?q=smart+door+lock+vulnerability&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&biw=1728&bih=874&sxsrf=ACYBGNQUjXe-2pPpcpqQDxdlhzaH8zRy7g%3A1571563882462&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019&tbm=nws https://www.google.com/search?q=smart+door+lock+vulnerabilit...
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Not at all unexpected.

tzs 7y ago

I'd like to see pretty much everything that uses electronics inlcude, unless its form factor is such that it is not practical, a USB-C port. I'd like to see this USB-C port used for two things. It's OK if it does more than these two things. I'm not just talking about IoT devices. I want this for my washing machine, my electric toothbrush, my vacuum cleaner...everything. 1. If you insert a formatted thumb drive that contains a directory with some magic, standardized name (e.g., "DEVICE_INFO"), the device creates a directory under that named after the device, and in that directory writes out a PDF of its manual, install guide, warranty info, and/or whatever other documentation comes with the device. It also writes a text file containing model number, serial number, manufacture date, version information, and stuff like that. 2. If you insert a formatted thumb drive that contains a directory with another magic, standardized name (e.g., "FIRMWARE_UPDATES"), which contains a sub-directory names after the device, the device looks in there for a firmware update file, and if it finds one that is applicable it applies it.