4 ms·

> Judges don’t need a law degree in Kansas, or many other states, to preside over cases like these You can't make this up!

by 77pt77 7y ago

hestipod 7y ago
So many people think judges are some elevated ethical beings like we imagine as kids. They are mostly lawyers who are appointed or elected politically. The administrative law judge for my social assistance applications was hostile and overtly political and I knew I was screwed in the hearing. To make it worse the appeal was sent right back to HIM for review. Of course he rejected the appeal and upheld his decision. One of those things everyone who I tell responds like its not possible...but it was...and nobody cared. I lost all hope in the systems after that experience.
- 77pt77 7y ago
  > To make it worse the appeal was sent right back to HIM for review I believe you. Nothing really surprises me anymore...
giancarlostoro 7y ago
I honestly dont find that an awful thing. There are places like small towns where people probably dont go to fancy schools to get fancy degrees. Are they going to be left without judges?
- 77pt77 7y ago
  Get them from somewhere else where they actually know the law. This is beyond outrageous!
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    Some people become lawyers without degrees too. They study law just like anybody else they just dont run themselves into school debt. These too can become judges. Edit: I couldnt find the term but now I did. You become a lawyer by becoming an apprentice of another lawyer. I assume these people become judges. In some states the only requirement to become a judge is to have been a lawyer. My original point was to take the comment from the article with a grain of salt. It requires a citation.
    - dbcurtis 7y ago
      It is also called "reading the law". But you are right, you do it under the supervision of a licensed attorney. Reading the law does not get you out of sitting for the bar exam. Going to a top-10 law school does not get you out of sitting for the bar exam either, at least in California. In Cali, the pass rate for the bar exam (3 days long) was around 45% when my wife took it (and passed it on first go! Yay!). So, sure, in CA you can sit for the bar exam after reading the law, and hang out your own shingle, and maybe become a judge. If you pass the bar exam, you are, and in IMHO deserve to be, good to go.
      - giancarlostoro 7y ago
        Thanks for that additional insight, I had not known it was also called reading the law. I think yeah if you pass the bar exam you deserve to be good to go for sure. I assume those who do this are not considered to have "studied law" which is what the OP in this thread is seemingly missing in my opinion.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Yes I mean since Jimmy the mechanic does all the surgeries I don’t see why one of the miners can’t be judge. /s
tracker1 7y ago
I do know that when Arizona became a state, there was a part of the original constitution that the US Congress made them change in order to become a state. Any elected official can be recalled by citizen petition for ballot initiative. The US govt didn't feel that Judges should be included. It was the first amendment to the state's constitution. That may be part of why you don't get a lot of these kinds of stories in AZ. Of course there are many other issues at play. Such as most political candidates don't show their political party in ads. The term limits set a couple decades ago cause a large shuffling of where political candidates land after term limits (state house/senate/boards). I've seen so much corruption from inside and out, and even creative ideas of dealing with it, only to see it shuffled differently every time. I'm not sure there really is any other solution than limiting govt as much as possible, and by extension limiting corporate protections as well. Many today lean towards Communism/Socialism as the answer, and from my understanding, I can only see that as escalating the problems in the long run.
snagglegaggle 7y ago
I think this is completely fine. You'd rather be ruled by a credentialed class that could have opinions completely divorced from reality? The law is supposed to be human and obvious. Any case that "requires" a JD and ten years experience is likely full of trash.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  The answer to the first question is yes. I’d like my court cases to be decided by someone with legal training just like I’d like my surgery to be done by someone with training.
- knolax 7y ago
  If the law was human and obvious we wouldn't need lawyers in the first place. The system as it is is already complex enough that someone without a law degree would have great difficulty navigating it. Having uncredentialed judges won't make the laws simpler they'll just make an already dysfunctional system even worst.
  - snagglegaggle 7y ago
    There is no inherent need for lawyers; that one is required to navigate a legal system reflects poorly on it.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > You'd rather be ruled by a credentialed class that could have opinions completely divorced from reality? There's a great New Yorker cartoon about this. https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a20630 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a20630
wisty 7y ago
In the US you don't need a law degree to be a Supreme Court Judge. It's pretty common with elected positions - it's up to voters to make the decision.
- Keverw 7y ago
  I know sheriffs are elected too. I wonder if some rich person could just spend a bunch of money on ads with no qualifications when it comes to law enforcement and win in their county. Sounds like something a bored millionaire who retired early might do just for fun.
  - alexsb92 7y ago
    Shaquille O'Neal has expressed interest in becoming a sheriff, though he has been a deputy for a while and has taken some of the training.
  - smelendez 7y ago
    There was an issue a few years ago in Tulsa where the sheriff was deputizing political cronies with minimal training, and one of them,a man in his 70s, fatally shot someone. https://nyti.ms/1aPwG91 https://nyti.ms/1aPwG91
    - knolax 7y ago
      "The reserve sheriff’s deputy in Tulsa, Okla., who killed an unarmed suspect, apparently after mistaking his pistol for a Taser" It'd be funny if it wasn't something that actually happened.
      - Keverw 7y ago
        There was a story where someone was filming police and they mistaked someones phone for a gun.

> Judges don’t need a law degree in Kansas, or many other states, to preside over cases like these You can't make this up!

by 77pt77 7y ago

> Judges don’t need a law degree in Kansas, or many other states, to preside over cases like these You can't make this up!

hestipod 7y ago

So many people think judges are some elevated ethical beings like we imagine as kids. They are mostly lawyers who are appointed or elected politically. The administrative law judge for my social assistance applications was hostile and overtly political and I knew I was screwed in the hearing. To make it worse the appeal was sent right back to HIM for review. Of course he rejected the appeal and upheld his decision. One of those things everyone who I tell responds like its not possible...but it was...and nobody cared. I lost all hope in the systems after that experience.

77pt77 7y ago
> To make it worse the appeal was sent right back to HIM for review I believe you. Nothing really surprises me anymore...

giancarlostoro 7y ago

I honestly dont find that an awful thing. There are places like small towns where people probably dont go to fancy schools to get fancy degrees. Are they going to be left without judges?

77pt77 7y ago
Get them from somewhere else where they actually know the law. This is beyond outrageous!
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  Some people become lawyers without degrees too. They study law just like anybody else they just dont run themselves into school debt. These too can become judges. Edit: I couldnt find the term but now I did. You become a lawyer by becoming an apprentice of another lawyer. I assume these people become judges. In some states the only requirement to become a judge is to have been a lawyer. My original point was to take the comment from the article with a grain of salt. It requires a citation.
  - dbcurtis 7y ago
    It is also called "reading the law". But you are right, you do it under the supervision of a licensed attorney. Reading the law does not get you out of sitting for the bar exam. Going to a top-10 law school does not get you out of sitting for the bar exam either, at least in California. In Cali, the pass rate for the bar exam (3 days long) was around 45% when my wife took it (and passed it on first go! Yay!). So, sure, in CA you can sit for the bar exam after reading the law, and hang out your own shingle, and maybe become a judge. If you pass the bar exam, you are, and in IMHO deserve to be, good to go.
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      Thanks for that additional insight, I had not known it was also called reading the law. I think yeah if you pass the bar exam you deserve to be good to go for sure. I assume those who do this are not considered to have "studied law" which is what the OP in this thread is seemingly missing in my opinion.
alkonaut 7y ago
Yes I mean since Jimmy the mechanic does all the surgeries I don’t see why one of the miners can’t be judge. /s

tracker1 7y ago

I do know that when Arizona became a state, there was a part of the original constitution that the US Congress made them change in order to become a state. Any elected official can be recalled by citizen petition for ballot initiative. The US govt didn't feel that Judges should be included. It was the first amendment to the state's constitution. That may be part of why you don't get a lot of these kinds of stories in AZ. Of course there are many other issues at play. Such as most political candidates don't show their political party in ads. The term limits set a couple decades ago cause a large shuffling of where political candidates land after term limits (state house/senate/boards). I've seen so much corruption from inside and out, and even creative ideas of dealing with it, only to see it shuffled differently every time. I'm not sure there really is any other solution than limiting govt as much as possible, and by extension limiting corporate protections as well. Many today lean towards Communism/Socialism as the answer, and from my understanding, I can only see that as escalating the problems in the long run.

snagglegaggle 7y ago

I think this is completely fine. You'd rather be ruled by a credentialed class that could have opinions completely divorced from reality? The law is supposed to be human and obvious. Any case that "requires" a JD and ten years experience is likely full of trash.

alkonaut 7y ago
The answer to the first question is yes. I’d like my court cases to be decided by someone with legal training just like I’d like my surgery to be done by someone with training.
knolax 7y ago
If the law was human and obvious we wouldn't need lawyers in the first place. The system as it is is already complex enough that someone without a law degree would have great difficulty navigating it. Having uncredentialed judges won't make the laws simpler they'll just make an already dysfunctional system even worst.
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  There is no inherent need for lawyers; that one is required to navigate a legal system reflects poorly on it.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> You'd rather be ruled by a credentialed class that could have opinions completely divorced from reality? There's a great New Yorker cartoon about this. https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a20630 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a20630

wisty 7y ago

In the US you don't need a law degree to be a Supreme Court Judge. It's pretty common with elected positions - it's up to voters to make the decision.

Keverw 7y ago
I know sheriffs are elected too. I wonder if some rich person could just spend a bunch of money on ads with no qualifications when it comes to law enforcement and win in their county. Sounds like something a bored millionaire who retired early might do just for fun.
- alexsb92 7y ago
  Shaquille O'Neal has expressed interest in becoming a sheriff, though he has been a deputy for a while and has taken some of the training.
- smelendez 7y ago
  There was an issue a few years ago in Tulsa where the sheriff was deputizing political cronies with minimal training, and one of them,a man in his 70s, fatally shot someone. https://nyti.ms/1aPwG91 https://nyti.ms/1aPwG91
  - knolax 7y ago
    "The reserve sheriff’s deputy in Tulsa, Okla., who killed an unarmed suspect, apparently after mistaking his pistol for a Taser" It'd be funny if it wasn't something that actually happened.
    - Keverw 7y ago
      There was a story where someone was filming police and they mistaked someones phone for a gun.