4 ms·

If someone wants to claim that Russia made a measurable impact on the 2016 election with $100k ad spend, then they're going to have to provide proof.

loceng 7y ago
I just pointed to proof - the fact that you're ignoring or dismissing it doesn't change that.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I must have missed your link to proof? I don't see it in your comment.
  - loceng 7y ago
    First how about you define what you mean by measurable, then we can see how you're gatekeeping the use of that term. Then define what you mean by impact to see how you're gatekeeping that quantification. Then maybe there can be a conversation.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      It's actually on the people claiming that Russia had a measurable impact on the election to provide some sort of proof of that claim.
      - loceng 7y ago
        You're running in circles to avoid answering.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Avoid answering what? I asked you for proof and you didn't provide any.
        loceng 7y ago
        We're talking about it - that's a measurable impact. If you want to argue it didn't have a substantial impact then please provide proof that the media amplifying the Russia (and related narrative) as it has - distracting us from the real, underlying issues - wasn't substantial. Please prove that Russia's actions, including brigading Reddit and other communities via their propaganda farms, didn't provide talking points to the media to distract the majority of us from the important, underlying issues. Perhaps you're trying to gate keep by limiting the scope by saying Russia's efforts didn't directly have a substantial impact? But then you're ignoring the full picture in order for your argument to be "more right" but still not correct; Russia's direct actions don't exist in a silo - likewise Trump would be nothing if mainstream media didn't amplify every insane word coming out of him. As POTUS candidate Andrew Yang is pointing out to us: it's automation, not immigrants, that have been taking jobs leading to Americans suffering and lead to the symptom of Trump; as Noam Chomsky also rightfully pointed out, Netanyahu of Israel greatly interfered - directly - with American politics. The mainstream media is directly and indirectly part of the dis-ease, and has allowed such dis-ease progression. Trump, a tyrant wannabe-never-will-be, understands this mechanism of mainstream media (reach, the attention economy, manipulation) - in general called marketing, Trump being a charlatan or false prophet vs. a genuine entrepreneur with true compassion - an ideal example being Yang to contrast Trump to, regardless of what you think about his policies, how he holds himself, his character. Curious what your thoughts are, what your response will be.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        As I've repeatedly said. It's on those who claim something happened to provide proof that it did. You haven't provided a single link of evidence to support your argument. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and you haven't provided any. Certainly you've seen some data to back up your assertion? I know I haven't but I'm willing to look at anything anyone finds.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Re: Yang. I think he's a very interesting candidate! He's innovative and providing a fresh perspective. That doesn't have anything to do with the Russian "hacking" myth the media has been pushing full-blast though. $100k of Facebook ads is nothing. I'm 100% sure the media isn't pushing this to help Yang, but instead traditional mainstream politicians like Clinton.

loceng 7y ago

I just pointed to proof - the fact that you're ignoring or dismissing it doesn't change that.

malvosenior 7y ago
I must have missed your link to proof? I don't see it in your comment.
- loceng 7y ago
  First how about you define what you mean by measurable, then we can see how you're gatekeeping the use of that term. Then define what you mean by impact to see how you're gatekeeping that quantification. Then maybe there can be a conversation.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    It's actually on the people claiming that Russia had a measurable impact on the election to provide some sort of proof of that claim.
    - loceng 7y ago
      You're running in circles to avoid answering.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        Avoid answering what? I asked you for proof and you didn't provide any.
        loceng 7y ago
        We're talking about it - that's a measurable impact. If you want to argue it didn't have a substantial impact then please provide proof that the media amplifying the Russia (and related narrative) as it has - distracting us from the real, underlying issues - wasn't substantial. Please prove that Russia's actions, including brigading Reddit and other communities via their propaganda farms, didn't provide talking points to the media to distract the majority of us from the important, underlying issues. Perhaps you're trying to gate keep by limiting the scope by saying Russia's efforts didn't directly have a substantial impact? But then you're ignoring the full picture in order for your argument to be "more right" but still not correct; Russia's direct actions don't exist in a silo - likewise Trump would be nothing if mainstream media didn't amplify every insane word coming out of him. As POTUS candidate Andrew Yang is pointing out to us: it's automation, not immigrants, that have been taking jobs leading to Americans suffering and lead to the symptom of Trump; as Noam Chomsky also rightfully pointed out, Netanyahu of Israel greatly interfered - directly - with American politics. The mainstream media is directly and indirectly part of the dis-ease, and has allowed such dis-ease progression. Trump, a tyrant wannabe-never-will-be, understands this mechanism of mainstream media (reach, the attention economy, manipulation) - in general called marketing, Trump being a charlatan or false prophet vs. a genuine entrepreneur with true compassion - an ideal example being Yang to contrast Trump to, regardless of what you think about his policies, how he holds himself, his character. Curious what your thoughts are, what your response will be.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        As I've repeatedly said. It's on those who claim something happened to provide proof that it did. You haven't provided a single link of evidence to support your argument. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and you haven't provided any. Certainly you've seen some data to back up your assertion? I know I haven't but I'm willing to look at anything anyone finds.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Re: Yang. I think he's a very interesting candidate! He's innovative and providing a fresh perspective. That doesn't have anything to do with the Russian "hacking" myth the media has been pushing full-blast though. $100k of Facebook ads is nothing. I'm 100% sure the media isn't pushing this to help Yang, but instead traditional mainstream politicians like Clinton.