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How about a SAT test but instead of getting into a college you get a job. Bring back aptitude testing for employment so we don't have to go through this college

by zelly 7y ago

How about a SAT test but instead of getting into a college you get a job. Bring back aptitude testing for employment so we don't have to go through this college rigmarole.

chongli 7y ago
I don’t think employers want that. They like 4 year college degrees not only because they demonstrate a modicum of intelligence but also because they demonstrate conformity and conscientiousness, as well as the ability to delay gratification. Employers like conformist workers who will put up with boring work without complaint. A person who does really well in high school and aces their SATs but refuses to go to college sends a signal of nonconformity and a lack of conscientiousness. This is the type of person who may be very smart and highly skilled and also likely to get bored and leave for a different job.
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  They won’t be able to verify it for fresh high school grads, granted, but for people in their mid twenties and older, their conscientiousness and conformity will be apparent in their employment history. My friend runs a retail business, and he keeps repeating that in his experience, for the relatively simple jobs he has, best predictor of employee quality is whether they had and kept a single job for past 2 years. If they cannot keep a single job for any significant amount of time, it’s bad sign.
- fierarul 7y ago
  This explanation seems somehow off... Wouldn't a 1-2 years degree still show conformity and conscientiousness and delayed gratification? 1-2 years is no small thing. Don't normal employees also get bored and leave for a different job? I know for one I would hire kids out of high-school at my company if I had the need for extra work. If they pass the same tests as a college student does, I don't see why not? Not to mention that from past experience college students learn their 'trade' at the 1st job. There is really not a lot of value add in many college degrees.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  I am an employer. Why the fuck would I ever want that type of employee?
- zelly 7y ago
  So you agree that college has nothing to do with education or job preparation, but rather some abstract general measure of character. There are other ways to filter for people with these traits. Being smart in general (or being conscientious enough to study hard for the knowledge-based SATs) highly correlates to low time preference, so it may be redundant to do any other tests. There are other ways to teach a job skill without spending 4 years to do it or making a competition out of getting access to learning. In the last century before the college boom, big employers would expect to have to train new employees. Forcing young people to incur significant unforgivable debt to the education-industrial complex just to prove they have some brain configuration seems wasteful and cruel.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  These people are in Silicon Valley now mostly. Anecdotally, it doesn’t matter which major they graduated, they all seem to gravitate the same way
fortran77 7y ago
Not legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co. And a more recent case from an employer that was trying to be more careful: https://fortune.com/2015/08/24/target-discriminatory-hiring/ https://fortune.com/2015/08/24/target-discriminatory-hiring/
astura 7y ago
That does exist, some government positions are filled using civil service exams.

by zelly 7y ago

How about a SAT test but instead of getting into a college you get a job. Bring back aptitude testing for employment so we don't have to go through this college rigmarole.

chongli 7y ago

I don’t think employers want that. They like 4 year college degrees not only because they demonstrate a modicum of intelligence but also because they demonstrate conformity and conscientiousness, as well as the ability to delay gratification. Employers like conformist workers who will put up with boring work without complaint. A person who does really well in high school and aces their SATs but refuses to go to college sends a signal of nonconformity and a lack of conscientiousness. This is the type of person who may be very smart and highly skilled and also likely to get bored and leave for a different job.

xyzzyz 7y ago
They won’t be able to verify it for fresh high school grads, granted, but for people in their mid twenties and older, their conscientiousness and conformity will be apparent in their employment history. My friend runs a retail business, and he keeps repeating that in his experience, for the relatively simple jobs he has, best predictor of employee quality is whether they had and kept a single job for past 2 years. If they cannot keep a single job for any significant amount of time, it’s bad sign.
fierarul 7y ago
This explanation seems somehow off... Wouldn't a 1-2 years degree still show conformity and conscientiousness and delayed gratification? 1-2 years is no small thing. Don't normal employees also get bored and leave for a different job? I know for one I would hire kids out of high-school at my company if I had the need for extra work. If they pass the same tests as a college student does, I don't see why not? Not to mention that from past experience college students learn their 'trade' at the 1st job. There is really not a lot of value add in many college degrees.
travisoneill1 7y ago
I am an employer. Why the fuck would I ever want that type of employee?
zelly 7y ago
So you agree that college has nothing to do with education or job preparation, but rather some abstract general measure of character. There are other ways to filter for people with these traits. Being smart in general (or being conscientious enough to study hard for the knowledge-based SATs) highly correlates to low time preference, so it may be redundant to do any other tests. There are other ways to teach a job skill without spending 4 years to do it or making a competition out of getting access to learning. In the last century before the college boom, big employers would expect to have to train new employees. Forcing young people to incur significant unforgivable debt to the education-industrial complex just to prove they have some brain configuration seems wasteful and cruel.
Aperocky 7y ago
These people are in Silicon Valley now mostly. Anecdotally, it doesn’t matter which major they graduated, they all seem to gravitate the same way

fortran77 7y ago

Not legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co. And a more recent case from an employer that was trying to be more careful: https://fortune.com/2015/08/24/target-discriminatory-hiring/ https://fortune.com/2015/08/24/target-discriminatory-hiring/

astura 7y ago

That does exist, some government positions are filled using civil service exams.