3 ms·

Soon I'll actually make a post covering all these "vaporware"/scam posts and articles. Zig's author's criticism is hard to respond to, since he claims things l

Soon I'll actually make a post covering all these "vaporware"/scam posts and articles. Zig's author's criticism is hard to respond to, since he claims things like "the V compiler has freetype and glfw dependencies", which is absurd: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 Also he claimed there was no REPL, cross compiling or hot code reloading, when all these things were there: https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784

kdmccormick 7y ago
TBH the main criticism seems not to be of the language itself, which seems like a cool and worthwhile project, but of its "marketing". Clickbaity rhetoric like "V Language Released" with no source code and many missing features, and now "compiles itself in stunning 0.09 seconds" without a rigorous dataset or accompanying list of features that said compiler supports are likely the source of the backlash. My outsider advice, as someone who has never made a language (so, props to you for that) is to lower the hype level, and instead focus on posting news like deep-dives into design decisions and implementation stories, which people in the PL community are more likely to appreciate.
- amedvednikov 7y ago
  What do you mean no source code? I think 0.09s compilation is pretty cool, I worked a lot to make it happen, and I'm excited to share it.
  - kick 7y ago
    It's really cool! People seem to be ranting just to rant.
  - kdmccormick 7y ago
    What I mean is that when it was announced that "V Programming Language is Released", it was just binaries and no source code: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 There's nothing wrong with releasing the binaries, but a more genuine headline might've been like "V Language: Alpha Compiler Binary Preview". And the 0.09 second compilation is really cool! But a more genuine headline would've been "I got V to compile itself in 0.09 on my computer". If you think I'm ranting or nit-picking, so be it. But my experience in software development is that exaggeration leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, and could harm the reputation of your otherwise really interesting language project.
    - amedvednikov 7y ago
      This was posted by someone else, I never announced it. Never saw this post. The binaries were released 2 days before the source code, which was a weird decision. I never realized literally tens of thousands were following my every move. I'd be more careful then.
      - kdmccormick 7y ago
        That is fair. You've piqued a lot of interest, and now a lot of people are following your every statement. I can imagine that managing those people's expectations isn't trivial. Best of luck! Looking forward to 1.0
        amedvednikov 7y ago
        Thanks!
- kstenerud 7y ago
  It got my attention. And I'm VERY picky. I read through the documentation, and I can't find anything that triggers my bullshitoemeter, or that I disagree with (with the exception of throwing compilation errors for unused things, but that's just a nitpick).
  - amedvednikov 7y ago
    Thanks! By the way, it's actually a warning now in debug builds :)
    - kstenerud 7y ago
      OMG absolutely perfect! I was afraid I'd have to do another https://github.com/kstenerud/go https://github.com/kstenerud/go
      - amedvednikov 7y ago
        I've updated the docs :) Thanks for pointing this out.

kdmccormick 7y ago

TBH the main criticism seems not to be of the language itself, which seems like a cool and worthwhile project, but of its "marketing". Clickbaity rhetoric like "V Language Released" with no source code and many missing features, and now "compiles itself in stunning 0.09 seconds" without a rigorous dataset or accompanying list of features that said compiler supports are likely the source of the backlash. My outsider advice, as someone who has never made a language (so, props to you for that) is to lower the hype level, and instead focus on posting news like deep-dives into design decisions and implementation stories, which people in the PL community are more likely to appreciate.

amedvednikov 7y ago
What do you mean no source code? I think 0.09s compilation is pretty cool, I worked a lot to make it happen, and I'm excited to share it.
- kick 7y ago
  It's really cool! People seem to be ranting just to rant.
- kdmccormick 7y ago
  What I mean is that when it was announced that "V Programming Language is Released", it was just binaries and no source code: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 There's nothing wrong with releasing the binaries, but a more genuine headline might've been like "V Language: Alpha Compiler Binary Preview". And the 0.09 second compilation is really cool! But a more genuine headline would've been "I got V to compile itself in 0.09 on my computer". If you think I'm ranting or nit-picking, so be it. But my experience in software development is that exaggeration leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, and could harm the reputation of your otherwise really interesting language project.
  - amedvednikov 7y ago
    This was posted by someone else, I never announced it. Never saw this post. The binaries were released 2 days before the source code, which was a weird decision. I never realized literally tens of thousands were following my every move. I'd be more careful then.
    - kdmccormick 7y ago
      That is fair. You've piqued a lot of interest, and now a lot of people are following your every statement. I can imagine that managing those people's expectations isn't trivial. Best of luck! Looking forward to 1.0
      - amedvednikov 7y ago
        Thanks!
kstenerud 7y ago
It got my attention. And I'm VERY picky. I read through the documentation, and I can't find anything that triggers my bullshitoemeter, or that I disagree with (with the exception of throwing compilation errors for unused things, but that's just a nitpick).
- amedvednikov 7y ago
  Thanks! By the way, it's actually a warning now in debug builds :)
  - kstenerud 7y ago
    OMG absolutely perfect! I was afraid I'd have to do another https://github.com/kstenerud/go https://github.com/kstenerud/go
    - amedvednikov 7y ago
      I've updated the docs :) Thanks for pointing this out.