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Last time when V was presented in HN, it got completely ripped apart by most posters. This was probably due to the many empty promises by the creator which V si

Last time when V was presented in HN, it got completely ripped apart by most posters. This was probably due to the many empty promises by the creator which V simply wasn't able to deliver on. There were also hard criticisms posted by creators of other languages like Zig, wren etc. I want to know from V's critic, where do they feel the language is right now, now that it has had some more months behind it? Do you still feel that its a lot of snake oil or do you think it is going along a good path? Not trying to push an agenda but I am genuinely curious because I have never seen such definitive opinions against a language before in HN. I am yet to use V (waiting for the Doom demo which would be the proof of the pudding for me), but i do check its chat and github every now and then; and things seem to be going along much better now. lots of contributions, better project management and timely fixes. Here are some of the older threads on V; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632

amedvednikov 7y ago
Soon I'll actually make a post covering all these "vaporware"/scam posts and articles. Zig's author's criticism is hard to respond to, since he claims things like "the V compiler has freetype and glfw dependencies", which is absurd: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 Also he claimed there was no REPL, cross compiling or hot code reloading, when all these things were there: https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784
- kdmccormick 7y ago
  TBH the main criticism seems not to be of the language itself, which seems like a cool and worthwhile project, but of its "marketing". Clickbaity rhetoric like "V Language Released" with no source code and many missing features, and now "compiles itself in stunning 0.09 seconds" without a rigorous dataset or accompanying list of features that said compiler supports are likely the source of the backlash. My outsider advice, as someone who has never made a language (so, props to you for that) is to lower the hype level, and instead focus on posting news like deep-dives into design decisions and implementation stories, which people in the PL community are more likely to appreciate.
  - amedvednikov 7y ago
    What do you mean no source code? I think 0.09s compilation is pretty cool, I worked a lot to make it happen, and I'm excited to share it.
    - kick 7y ago
      It's really cool! People seem to be ranting just to rant.
    - kdmccormick 7y ago
      What I mean is that when it was announced that "V Programming Language is Released", it was just binaries and no source code: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 There's nothing wrong with releasing the binaries, but a more genuine headline might've been like "V Language: Alpha Compiler Binary Preview". And the 0.09 second compilation is really cool! But a more genuine headline would've been "I got V to compile itself in 0.09 on my computer". If you think I'm ranting or nit-picking, so be it. But my experience in software development is that exaggeration leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, and could harm the reputation of your otherwise really interesting language project.
      - amedvednikov 7y ago
        This was posted by someone else, I never announced it. Never saw this post. The binaries were released 2 days before the source code, which was a weird decision. I never realized literally tens of thousands were following my every move. I'd be more careful then.
        kdmccormick 7y ago
        That is fair. You've piqued a lot of interest, and now a lot of people are following your every statement. I can imagine that managing those people's expectations isn't trivial. Best of luck! Looking forward to 1.0
FlorianRappl 7y ago
I feel exactly the same (thanks for compiling the links for reference). Last time I did not write, but I also was kind of confused by some of the claims. This time I'm actually quite blown away. The author seems to have managed to write a quite cool PL incl. an ecosystem of libraries, package manager, community, ... - great stuff!
dinglejungle 7y ago
> many empty promises by the creator which V simply wasn't able to deliver on. Seems like this trend will probably continue with regards to the "1.0 release in December 2019" claim advertised in the Github description[1][a], since things like memory management are not implemented yet[2] and the December 2019 deadline would mean going from "first public alpha"[3] to 1.0 in less than a year. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v https://github.com/vlang/v [a] depending on what 1.0 means, I guess [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21296992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21296992 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297051
- amedvednikov 7y ago
  Yes, so many empty promises I never delivered.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    The world is full of projects which are late, never fulfill the original plan, disappear with people's money, pivot direction or funding source, put arbitrary restrictions on use, etc. If someone publishes an ambitious plan, the disbelief is likely not personal. It's: "that almost never happens, we need some serious proof". Especially if the timing is more ambitious than seen elsewhere. No judgement here on the project, just an observation. I'm excited to see where the project ends up.
  - wokwokwok 7y ago
    I can’t tell if you’re trying to sarcastic or not, but accurate estimates for software releases are notoriously difficult. ...it seems completely unremarkable to think the 1.0 date is too ambitious. I mean, you can tag 1.0.0 today and say you’ve made it, but that doesn’t actually achieve anything meaningful. Are you actually confident about your roadmap to 1.0? It seems very ambitious to me to have these done by December: - V can translate your entire C++ (wip) project and offer you the safety, simplicity, and up to 400x compilation speed-up. - Loading complex 3D objects with textures (wip) - Camera (moving, looking around) (wip) - Skeletal animation (wip) - Translating DOOM from C to V and building it in 0.7 seconds (x25 speed-up) (wip) What about macOS and windows support? /shrug

amedvednikov 7y ago

Soon I'll actually make a post covering all these "vaporware"/scam posts and articles. Zig's author's criticism is hard to respond to, since he claims things like "the V compiler has freetype and glfw dependencies", which is absurd: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 Also he claimed there was no REPL, cross compiling or hot code reloading, when all these things were there: https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1137537130887077890 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153363259715702784

kdmccormick 7y ago
TBH the main criticism seems not to be of the language itself, which seems like a cool and worthwhile project, but of its "marketing". Clickbaity rhetoric like "V Language Released" with no source code and many missing features, and now "compiles itself in stunning 0.09 seconds" without a rigorous dataset or accompanying list of features that said compiler supports are likely the source of the backlash. My outsider advice, as someone who has never made a language (so, props to you for that) is to lower the hype level, and instead focus on posting news like deep-dives into design decisions and implementation stories, which people in the PL community are more likely to appreciate.
- amedvednikov 7y ago
  What do you mean no source code? I think 0.09s compilation is pretty cool, I worked a lot to make it happen, and I'm excited to share it.
  - kick 7y ago
    It's really cool! People seem to be ranting just to rant.
  - kdmccormick 7y ago
    What I mean is that when it was announced that "V Programming Language is Released", it was just binaries and no source code: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 There's nothing wrong with releasing the binaries, but a more genuine headline might've been like "V Language: Alpha Compiler Binary Preview". And the 0.09 second compilation is really cool! But a more genuine headline would've been "I got V to compile itself in 0.09 on my computer". If you think I'm ranting or nit-picking, so be it. But my experience in software development is that exaggeration leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, and could harm the reputation of your otherwise really interesting language project.
    - amedvednikov 7y ago
      This was posted by someone else, I never announced it. Never saw this post. The binaries were released 2 days before the source code, which was a weird decision. I never realized literally tens of thousands were following my every move. I'd be more careful then.
      - kdmccormick 7y ago
        That is fair. You've piqued a lot of interest, and now a lot of people are following your every statement. I can imagine that managing those people's expectations isn't trivial. Best of luck! Looking forward to 1.0

FlorianRappl 7y ago

I feel exactly the same (thanks for compiling the links for reference). Last time I did not write, but I also was kind of confused by some of the claims. This time I'm actually quite blown away. The author seems to have managed to write a quite cool PL incl. an ecosystem of libraries, package manager, community, ... - great stuff!

dinglejungle 7y ago

> many empty promises by the creator which V simply wasn't able to deliver on. Seems like this trend will probably continue with regards to the "1.0 release in December 2019" claim advertised in the Github description[1][a], since things like memory management are not implemented yet[2] and the December 2019 deadline would mean going from "first public alpha"[3] to 1.0 in less than a year. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v https://github.com/vlang/v [a] depending on what 1.0 means, I guess [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21296992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21296992 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297051

amedvednikov 7y ago
Yes, so many empty promises I never delivered.
- viraptor 7y ago
  The world is full of projects which are late, never fulfill the original plan, disappear with people's money, pivot direction or funding source, put arbitrary restrictions on use, etc. If someone publishes an ambitious plan, the disbelief is likely not personal. It's: "that almost never happens, we need some serious proof". Especially if the timing is more ambitious than seen elsewhere. No judgement here on the project, just an observation. I'm excited to see where the project ends up.
- wokwokwok 7y ago
  I can’t tell if you’re trying to sarcastic or not, but accurate estimates for software releases are notoriously difficult. ...it seems completely unremarkable to think the 1.0 date is too ambitious. I mean, you can tag 1.0.0 today and say you’ve made it, but that doesn’t actually achieve anything meaningful. Are you actually confident about your roadmap to 1.0? It seems very ambitious to me to have these done by December: - V can translate your entire C++ (wip) project and offer you the safety, simplicity, and up to 400x compilation speed-up. - Loading complex 3D objects with textures (wip) - Camera (moving, looking around) (wip) - Skeletal animation (wip) - Translating DOOM from C to V and building it in 0.7 seconds (x25 speed-up) (wip) What about macOS and windows support? /shrug