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what a stupid thing to waste time thinking about. One would think the actual declaration of war would be the interesting event here.

benj111 7y ago
Ok. X declares war on Y. Twitter takes it down so Y never sees it. Are they at war?
- krapp 7y ago
  >X declares war on Y. Twitter takes it down so Y never sees it. Are they at war? Obviously, yes, for two reasons: 1) X isn't going to wait for confirmation that Y sees a tweet before actually going to war and 2) Y isn't going to depend entirely on Twitter to know what X is doing.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > X declares war on Y. [...] > Are they at war? Yes. Moreover, it doesn't matter, as no one declares war before initiating hostilities anymore; since aggression has been uniformly understood to be a crime, the only legitimate reason for waging war is is immediate, including imminent, national or collective self-defense (including, in the latter, implementation of UNSC resolutions pertaining to maintenance of peace and security), which requires claiming that the other side has already initiated war, which makes declarations superfluous. For domestic purposes, in the US, Congress will sometimes issue what is legally, though not formally labelled, a conditional declaration of war conditioned on executive determinations, but those conditions tend to be an executive determination that conditions which include (among more specific findings) a violation of UNSC conditions or acts of aggression against the US.
  - benj111 7y ago
    I was thinking of a World War 2 scenario where the declarers didn't actually start hostilities. Now in an alternate universe where Germany didn't realise it was at war if it invaded Poland, so it never invaded France. Fast forward X years on, and France wants to sign a peace treaty (because it's embarrassing being in the EU but at war with a fellow member, and makes Schengen complicated), but Germany doesn't see the need because they aren't at war. Can France unilaterally declare peace? Is Germany at war? (I suppose theres a legal and real world answer to this) I'm reminded of an urban legend, where Berwick on Tweed wasn't included in the peace treaty concluding the Crimean war, therefore still technically at war with Russia [1]. In all the tellings, a second treaty has had to be signed to end the war, which suggests both parties need to agree. [1] http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/history/berwicks-war-with-russia/ http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/history/berwicks-war-with-r...

benj111 7y ago

Ok. X declares war on Y. Twitter takes it down so Y never sees it. Are they at war?

krapp 7y ago
>X declares war on Y. Twitter takes it down so Y never sees it. Are they at war? Obviously, yes, for two reasons: 1) X isn't going to wait for confirmation that Y sees a tweet before actually going to war and 2) Y isn't going to depend entirely on Twitter to know what X is doing.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> X declares war on Y. [...] > Are they at war? Yes. Moreover, it doesn't matter, as no one declares war before initiating hostilities anymore; since aggression has been uniformly understood to be a crime, the only legitimate reason for waging war is is immediate, including imminent, national or collective self-defense (including, in the latter, implementation of UNSC resolutions pertaining to maintenance of peace and security), which requires claiming that the other side has already initiated war, which makes declarations superfluous. For domestic purposes, in the US, Congress will sometimes issue what is legally, though not formally labelled, a conditional declaration of war conditioned on executive determinations, but those conditions tend to be an executive determination that conditions which include (among more specific findings) a violation of UNSC conditions or acts of aggression against the US.
- benj111 7y ago
  I was thinking of a World War 2 scenario where the declarers didn't actually start hostilities. Now in an alternate universe where Germany didn't realise it was at war if it invaded Poland, so it never invaded France. Fast forward X years on, and France wants to sign a peace treaty (because it's embarrassing being in the EU but at war with a fellow member, and makes Schengen complicated), but Germany doesn't see the need because they aren't at war. Can France unilaterally declare peace? Is Germany at war? (I suppose theres a legal and real world answer to this) I'm reminded of an urban legend, where Berwick on Tweed wasn't included in the peace treaty concluding the Crimean war, therefore still technically at war with Russia [1]. In all the tellings, a second treaty has had to be signed to end the war, which suggests both parties need to agree. [1] http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/history/berwicks-war-with-russia/ http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/history/berwicks-war-with-r...