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I understand. As I said: > Unfortunately we don’t have a non-harmful viable alternative to the destructive behavior you enjoy Right now flying internationally

I understand. As I said: > Unfortunately we don’t have a non-harmful viable alternative to the destructive behavior you enjoy Right now flying internationally is artificially cheap. It's cheap because we collectively have allowed our commonwealth to be exploited, at great cost to our health and our future. You have a choice today whether to participate in that exploitation. And (hopefully) soon enough, most of us will simply be priced out of this type of behavior, as the externalities are better accounted for.

SapporoChris 7y ago
I agree with you on these points. I would support adding carbon taxes to make flying more expensive. I'd support development of carbon neutral aircraft be it solar, or hydrogen powered aircraft. My disagreement is, I do not think shaming will effectively change the people that fly. Shaming could spur other solutions, but I'd rather just lay out the arguments and then develop some carbon neutral solutions.
- the_gastropod 7y ago
  What mechanism do you envision to convince people to: 1. Be more environmentally conscious in their actions? 2. Affect systemic (governmental) for society to make more environmentally sound decisions? Being shamed is not fun—I get that. But I don't know if there's an alternative path. We need to convince people that their current choices have very negative consequences for others. If that's not worthy of shame, I don't know what is.
  - SapporoChris 7y ago
    regarding 1. I think people can be convinced without shaming. Pardon the generic example. If people do X, then Y happens. Y is a bad thing because A,B and C. versus If you do X, you are bad person and are directly responsible for Y and it's effects A,B and C. Both offer similar information, but the latter can produce resentment and irrational backlash. Regarding 2. I confess I am at a loss at how to get government to take useful action. Have you seen a politician successfully shamed lately? It might be happening but it is not making headlines.

SapporoChris 7y ago

I agree with you on these points. I would support adding carbon taxes to make flying more expensive. I'd support development of carbon neutral aircraft be it solar, or hydrogen powered aircraft. My disagreement is, I do not think shaming will effectively change the people that fly. Shaming could spur other solutions, but I'd rather just lay out the arguments and then develop some carbon neutral solutions.

the_gastropod 7y ago
What mechanism do you envision to convince people to: 1. Be more environmentally conscious in their actions? 2. Affect systemic (governmental) for society to make more environmentally sound decisions? Being shamed is not fun—I get that. But I don't know if there's an alternative path. We need to convince people that their current choices have very negative consequences for others. If that's not worthy of shame, I don't know what is.
- SapporoChris 7y ago
  regarding 1. I think people can be convinced without shaming. Pardon the generic example. If people do X, then Y happens. Y is a bad thing because A,B and C. versus If you do X, you are bad person and are directly responsible for Y and it's effects A,B and C. Both offer similar information, but the latter can produce resentment and irrational backlash. Regarding 2. I confess I am at a loss at how to get government to take useful action. Have you seen a politician successfully shamed lately? It might be happening but it is not making headlines.