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I'm really not sure why this isn't mentioned: USA should commission a study of health care systems in other countries. Include costs, challenges, issues of bri

I'm really not sure why this isn't mentioned: USA should commission a study of health care systems in other countries. Include costs, challenges, issues of bringing it to scale in US, etc. Then we can implement something based on real world experience and data. It seems that these highly complex topics are dealt at the ideological level only. Which is absurd, as details can make anything from any ideology horrible. It makes me think of times when other common sense issues that should be data driven were treated in such a way. In the end, the curvature of the world is really independent of any ideological constructs that were created, but the ideological constructs made discussing the data virtually impossible at the time.

aaavl2821 7y ago
There is plenty of data on this available. It isn't perfect but it's there. The problem isn't lack of data, its lack of awareness of the data. Most people learn about the healthcare system by reading newspapers and other media, and from what I've seen coverage of healthcare in most US media is very political and seldom data-driven Check out here to start, there are plenty of other resources: https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  Raw data there is. I'm talking about a report that says: After analyzing the health care systems of X, Y and Z countries, a commission suggest A, B and C changes to the US healthcare system. A major commission organized and created by an organization that has proven capable of developing long term, large scale plans for the greater good of the country (think the army corp of engineers, but it doesn't have to be them, just something that is as objective as possible) I'm also a bit surprised that the ideological bend is so strong, even on 'hacker' news, that net-net I'm getting down-voted on a what I think is essentially a call to look at data and create cohesive reporting to guide public policy. Maybe there is such a study. I'd be glad to know about it.
  - aaavl2821 7y ago
    That's fair, there are think tanks that do this sort of work, but I think it is a hard problem. Yes even on HN I find that most people are pretty dogmatic about healthcare. People tend to react rationally to the data when presented, but are also happy to make aggressive statements that are unsupported by data
    - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
      I don't have much experience with Think Tanks, but I've found the ones I've looked at to be highly partial to those funding them. This country is very capable of smart, logical thinking. We've basically eradicated the issues of flooding. If we apply that type of thinking/organization, the issue could be tackled. But both sides, left and right, would have to want truth over vindication. We need to demand commissions to investigate, instead of trying to validate pre-conceived ideological notions. If people reading the article asked for it, politicians would take note and would likely commission a good study. That's the beauty of our system (despite it's glaring flaws)
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>It seems that these highly complex topics are dealt at the ideological level only. Which is absurd If you take the view that the goal is winning instead of solving the problem it ceases to be quite as absurd.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  Except it isn't only about winning. Otherwise, we'd have no objective advancements in medicine. Saying it's ONLY about winning is just as absurd as thinking it's only about solving the problem. It's about solving problems within the system. That includes winning and a lot of other elements.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I didn't say that was the only goal. The politicians, the newspaper editors, the online trolls, etc. are all people too and probably want to see everyone get good healthcare at good prices but they're so busy advancing their vision of how that should happen that we can't actually have productive discourse because nobody can change their opinion on any detail.
    - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
      > The politicians, the newspaper editors, the online trolls, etc. are all people too and probably want to see everyone get good healthcare at good prices So then it's a good idea to remind people of the absurd, as in the post you answered. Dismissing the absurd as merely being a consequence of not 'thinking about winning' is an oversimplification. To me such a dismissive, one liner post is designed for ego-gratification, rather than real in depth discussion. No offense, we all do it. Just saying my perspective. Maybe I'm missing the in depth part though.
      - Balgair 7y ago
        The poster you are replying to is a troll, likely. I'd disengage with the poster and not continue the conversation, as they do not tend to comment 'in good faith'. Their HN profile bio as of 8pm GMT states: "When you read a HN article about some despot in a foreign land having the intellectuals lined up and shot it seems irrational. When you read the comments and you realize the despot might be on to something." 'Ironic' calls to do violence to others for their beliefs and words do not let one assume that the person calling for such pseudo-violence is trying to anything other than get a rise out of people. I'd suggest cat videos instead of wasting time with them.

aaavl2821 7y ago

There is plenty of data on this available. It isn't perfect but it's there. The problem isn't lack of data, its lack of awareness of the data. Most people learn about the healthcare system by reading newspapers and other media, and from what I've seen coverage of healthcare in most US media is very political and seldom data-driven Check out here to start, there are plenty of other resources: https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
Raw data there is. I'm talking about a report that says: After analyzing the health care systems of X, Y and Z countries, a commission suggest A, B and C changes to the US healthcare system. A major commission organized and created by an organization that has proven capable of developing long term, large scale plans for the greater good of the country (think the army corp of engineers, but it doesn't have to be them, just something that is as objective as possible) I'm also a bit surprised that the ideological bend is so strong, even on 'hacker' news, that net-net I'm getting down-voted on a what I think is essentially a call to look at data and create cohesive reporting to guide public policy. Maybe there is such a study. I'd be glad to know about it.
- aaavl2821 7y ago
  That's fair, there are think tanks that do this sort of work, but I think it is a hard problem. Yes even on HN I find that most people are pretty dogmatic about healthcare. People tend to react rationally to the data when presented, but are also happy to make aggressive statements that are unsupported by data
  - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
    I don't have much experience with Think Tanks, but I've found the ones I've looked at to be highly partial to those funding them. This country is very capable of smart, logical thinking. We've basically eradicated the issues of flooding. If we apply that type of thinking/organization, the issue could be tackled. But both sides, left and right, would have to want truth over vindication. We need to demand commissions to investigate, instead of trying to validate pre-conceived ideological notions. If people reading the article asked for it, politicians would take note and would likely commission a good study. That's the beauty of our system (despite it's glaring flaws)

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>It seems that these highly complex topics are dealt at the ideological level only. Which is absurd If you take the view that the goal is winning instead of solving the problem it ceases to be quite as absurd.

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
Except it isn't only about winning. Otherwise, we'd have no objective advancements in medicine. Saying it's ONLY about winning is just as absurd as thinking it's only about solving the problem. It's about solving problems within the system. That includes winning and a lot of other elements.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  I didn't say that was the only goal. The politicians, the newspaper editors, the online trolls, etc. are all people too and probably want to see everyone get good healthcare at good prices but they're so busy advancing their vision of how that should happen that we can't actually have productive discourse because nobody can change their opinion on any detail.
  - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
    > The politicians, the newspaper editors, the online trolls, etc. are all people too and probably want to see everyone get good healthcare at good prices So then it's a good idea to remind people of the absurd, as in the post you answered. Dismissing the absurd as merely being a consequence of not 'thinking about winning' is an oversimplification. To me such a dismissive, one liner post is designed for ego-gratification, rather than real in depth discussion. No offense, we all do it. Just saying my perspective. Maybe I'm missing the in depth part though.
    - Balgair 7y ago
      The poster you are replying to is a troll, likely. I'd disengage with the poster and not continue the conversation, as they do not tend to comment 'in good faith'. Their HN profile bio as of 8pm GMT states: "When you read a HN article about some despot in a foreign land having the intellectuals lined up and shot it seems irrational. When you read the comments and you realize the despot might be on to something." 'Ironic' calls to do violence to others for their beliefs and words do not let one assume that the person calling for such pseudo-violence is trying to anything other than get a rise out of people. I'd suggest cat videos instead of wasting time with them.