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I think you're stumbling on a root cause of America's healthcare crisis. I think most American's don't understand just how much physicians make--and where did y

I think you're stumbling on a root cause of America's healthcare crisis. I think most American's don't understand just how much physicians make--and where did you get those figures because clinicians I know make a good deal more than 200-300k

snowwrestler 7y ago
It's an uncomfortable subject because the vast majority of front-line medical professionals like doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc. are doing that job with passion and honesty to help people. But it's also true, and I think well-known at least in a vague sense, that one can make a pretty good living in the medical field. For-profit insurance companies come in for the most hate since they are in the position to deny care. But their profit margins are not sky-high. Whether or not one believes that private health insurance is a terrible idea, the facts are pretty clear that there is a lot more to the high cost of U.S. healthcare than just private insurance. There is a lot of cost everywhere in the medical system... that's the other side of those professionals making a good living. I'm not going to pretend I have a good answer to this.
- maximente 7y ago
  > It's an uncomfortable subject because the vast majority of front-line medical professionals like doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc. are doing that job with passion and honesty to help people. don't take this personally, but: this is an oft repeated meme that, in my experience, not really true, at least for MDs and nurses (to include doctors, specialists and surgeons). it certainly contributes to the sort of hero status of health care workers though. physicians in the US earn a ton for a high-prestige, high social power, high earnings, generally safe career. in return they must sacrifice these earnings and social status for most of their 20s due to ridiculous quotas and standards in medical school, propped up by AMA; this makes the system higher prestige and sought after, a nice vicious (or virtuous for them) cycle. the AMA also has them on the hook in a debt-slavery sort of way, because normal wages would never repay their ridiculous medical debt (see e.g. mid/low tier lawyers and law school outcomes when that got popular) nursing, likewise, is seen as a j o b that offers some safety/consistency in return for investing time into education. that these individuals """help people""" is generally of tertiary or lesser concern; much more "help" could be done by opening an affordable grocery store in a food desert. all but the most naive students either readily admit this or cop to it once asked.
jcranberry 7y ago
Average salary of physicians from the bureau of labor statistics [1]: Anesthesiologists $267,020 Surgeons 255,110 Obstetricians and gynecologists 238,320 Psychiatrists 220,380 Family and general practitioners 211,780 Physicians and surgeons, all other 203,880 Internists, general 196,490 Pediatricians, general 183,240 Doctors go through 4 extra years of school and then 5-7 years as a resident where they are paid an average of 60k and work ridiculous hours. During that period they're always on call, work twice as much as average workers in other industries, and don't get regular holidays. I have a surgical resident friend who regularly works over 100 hours a week, sometimes having as much as three 24 shifts in a week--and frequently he'll have <8 hour periods to go home and rest before returning to work. Plus, doctor's expenses can include medical malpractice insurance premiums if not provided by their place of work, which, depending on state and specialization, can range up to several hundred thousand dollars (!!!)[2]. I just don't see how doctors are overpaid considering the amount of training they have to go through, their work conditions, and the risks involved. 1. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.h... 2. https://www.gallaghermalpractice.com/blog/post/how-much-does-medical-malpractice-insurance-cost https://www.gallaghermalpractice.com/blog/post/how-much-does...

snowwrestler 7y ago

It's an uncomfortable subject because the vast majority of front-line medical professionals like doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc. are doing that job with passion and honesty to help people. But it's also true, and I think well-known at least in a vague sense, that one can make a pretty good living in the medical field. For-profit insurance companies come in for the most hate since they are in the position to deny care. But their profit margins are not sky-high. Whether or not one believes that private health insurance is a terrible idea, the facts are pretty clear that there is a lot more to the high cost of U.S. healthcare than just private insurance. There is a lot of cost everywhere in the medical system... that's the other side of those professionals making a good living. I'm not going to pretend I have a good answer to this.

maximente 7y ago
> It's an uncomfortable subject because the vast majority of front-line medical professionals like doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc. are doing that job with passion and honesty to help people. don't take this personally, but: this is an oft repeated meme that, in my experience, not really true, at least for MDs and nurses (to include doctors, specialists and surgeons). it certainly contributes to the sort of hero status of health care workers though. physicians in the US earn a ton for a high-prestige, high social power, high earnings, generally safe career. in return they must sacrifice these earnings and social status for most of their 20s due to ridiculous quotas and standards in medical school, propped up by AMA; this makes the system higher prestige and sought after, a nice vicious (or virtuous for them) cycle. the AMA also has them on the hook in a debt-slavery sort of way, because normal wages would never repay their ridiculous medical debt (see e.g. mid/low tier lawyers and law school outcomes when that got popular) nursing, likewise, is seen as a j o b that offers some safety/consistency in return for investing time into education. that these individuals """help people""" is generally of tertiary or lesser concern; much more "help" could be done by opening an affordable grocery store in a food desert. all but the most naive students either readily admit this or cop to it once asked.

jcranberry 7y ago

Average salary of physicians from the bureau of labor statistics [1]: Anesthesiologists $267,020 Surgeons 255,110 Obstetricians and gynecologists 238,320 Psychiatrists 220,380 Family and general practitioners 211,780 Physicians and surgeons, all other 203,880 Internists, general 196,490 Pediatricians, general 183,240 Doctors go through 4 extra years of school and then 5-7 years as a resident where they are paid an average of 60k and work ridiculous hours. During that period they're always on call, work twice as much as average workers in other industries, and don't get regular holidays. I have a surgical resident friend who regularly works over 100 hours a week, sometimes having as much as three 24 shifts in a week--and frequently he'll have <8 hour periods to go home and rest before returning to work. Plus, doctor's expenses can include medical malpractice insurance premiums if not provided by their place of work, which, depending on state and specialization, can range up to several hundred thousand dollars (!!!)[2]. I just don't see how doctors are overpaid considering the amount of training they have to go through, their work conditions, and the risks involved. 1. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.h... 2. https://www.gallaghermalpractice.com/blog/post/how-much-does-medical-malpractice-insurance-cost https://www.gallaghermalpractice.com/blog/post/how-much-does...