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I really like this article because it exposes the notion of computation vs. consciousness. We don't really understand consciousness but have a feeling for what
by sebringj 7y ago
I really like this article because it exposes the notion of computation vs. consciousness. We don't really understand consciousness but have a feeling for what it means. It could be that approximating consciousness so close, similar to the concept of limits in calculus would render it the same as what we have in terms of our inability to ever tell the difference if we cannot define it in the first place. The behavior of consciousness would be akin to approaching infinity.
- klodolph 7y agoIf you don’t know what consciousness means, is that because the word “consciousness” is vague, or is that because reality itself is vague? It is the word that is vague. By trying to build artificial consciousness, we are exploring, and creating machines that challenge our definition and understanding of the word “consciousness”. Usually we discover that the machine does not have consciousness and our definition for “consciousness” was wrong. Sometimes we discover that our definition of “consciousness” is so bad that we have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a completely new definition. Same thing happens with the word “intelligence”.
- Retric 7y agoIt’s not that consciousness is really vague, it’s more that people use vastly different definitions for the same word. Medically consciousness has a relatively low bar, but philosophy loves to overload it with implied meanings.
- semiotagonal 7y agoEven medically, you're not evaluating anything about consciousness (i.e. subjective experience) directly. You're just measuring things that we think imply consciousness.
- Retric 7y agoThis is where it get's tricky, some people take consciousness to imply sentience which requires subjective experience others are happy to with just awareness. A venus fly trap is aware of it's environment and has a useful response. In many peoples books that's consciousness others want to limit things to just say it's aware but lacks consciousness. IMO, that's the kind of divide that's prevents meaningful discussions.
- dwaltrip 7y agoI would say that "awareness" requires an entity to contain a detailed representation of the world around it that is updated over time as it interacts with the world. Of course, there is a spectrum here, depending on the complexity and dynamicness of this internal representation of the world. Perhaps it goes something like: absolutely zero awareness (e.g. a rock), to barely aware (a Venus fly trap), to highly aware (elephants, humans, etc). I'm sure the scale doesn't stop there, but we haven't had a chance to observe anything other than the highly aware animals here on Earth. You could break this down further, looking at things like episodic memory, the different senses of self, and so on. But humanity has only scratched the surface when it comes to understanding these things.
- andrepd 7y agoThen you just need to define what the terms mean. In the rest of the conversation, let "consciousness" mean "the subjective conscious experience (your qualitative experience of sight, sound, etc)", rather than "awareness", "medical wakefulness", or anything. Then you can talk about this concept instead of getting bogged down in definitions.
- Shorel 7y ago> IMO, that's the kind of divide that's prevents meaningful discussions. It doesn't prevent discussions for the sake of it. It's simply that we don't know. Any position you take in this matter is nothing more than unfounded speculation.
- Retric 7y agoThese are arbitrary definitions not knowable facts. People can agree that a standard red laser pointer is red, but exactly what frequency does light become or stop being red out to 7 decimal places? That’s not something everyone agrees on and arguing about it is not going to change people’s opinions.
- sebringj 7y agoRelating to this I had an experience recently in speaking with an autistic person who was functional and could almost pass as normal without people noticing. As I spoke with him more, it seemed something was off with him as if he wasn't aware of things, it was like he was stuck inside his head but could still reproduce responses. It was a feeling as if he was only partially there, must less so than a "normal" person in terms of awareness. It is that intangible definition or "thereness" in the eyes that seems elusive to define at least for me but if feels like AI is more like that 100% than what we consider human consciousness IMO.