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Not that I'm accusing -them- of this, but it did get me thinking..... How many times at different companies did people not get hired because of illegal reasons

Not that I'm accusing -them- of this, but it did get me thinking..... How many times at different companies did people not get hired because of illegal reasons? Has there been research done anonymously that would show when illegal criteria was used?

dangus 7y ago
I think it’s way more often than people think. I’ve overheard coded conversations by my DEI department about holding off on hiring candidates because the ones they found immediately weren’t “diverse” enough. Of course, that doesn’t make sense. A single entity can’t be diverse. Instead, “diverse” is a code word for “not white male.” Look, I don’t want to work in a boys club, either, but there has to be a better way to do diversity right. And the thing about hiring is, as long as you don’t say the illegal thing out loud, and you use that coded language, you can do whatever you want. Not truly illegal, but I also think that companies with poor 401k and healthcare benefits have no interest in improving them even if the business becomes wildly profitable because the kind of employees who know better are either older or not docile enough, i.e. they’re not going to drink the kool aid and work long hours and give up competitive compensation just because they’re “changing the world.” The last thing a startup wants is a transactional employee who considers employment an exchange of cash for time. They want “believers.”
- itronitron 7y ago
  >> The last thing a startup wants is a transactional employee who considers employment an exchange of cash for time which is unfortunate because transactional employees will generally be less impacted by the various ups, downs, and drama that startups typically experience
  - el_cujo 7y ago
    Is that really true though? I would tend to think a transactional employee would be the first to think "I don't make enough to deal with this bullshit" in the face of drama/downturns in a start-up. If it's just a "time for money" trade, after all, then there's no reason to not just jump ship when the going gets tough. My intention isn't to shame this attitude, by the way, I generally hold similar attitudes and start (casually) looking for new employment if things get too spicy at my place of work.
    - itronitron 7y ago
      There are a lot of factors for sure but I think transactional employees would be less impacted by the bullshit because they are less exposed to it due to their not socializing as much during or after working hours. Depending on experience, I would also expect them to be better at identifying potential bullshit and to be motivated to resolve uncertainty and ambiguity earlier in a process so that they can avoid working unnecessarily long hours.
- el_cujo 7y ago
  >And the thing about hiring is, as long as you don’t say the illegal thing out loud, and you use that coded language, you can do whatever you want. This, seems like as long as you say a candidate "isn't a good culture fit", then it's fine to discriminate based on whatever criteria you want as long as you aren't stupid enough to say out loud or in an email "we don't need any more blacks/latinos/asians/whites/women/men/etc."
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > do diversity right. Well, I don’t know about you, but every place I’ve worked in the past 20 years has been mostly Indian (men and women, pretty equally). By any definition of the word, I’m actually a diverse candidate in those offices… but I still get dinged with the “is a white male” penalty.
  - dangus 7y ago
    To be clear, my original comment wasn’t meant to say “think of the poor white men are getting discriminated against!” And similarly I don’t think you’re getting “dinged” at your largely-Indian company for anything. I don’t think being a white male prevents one from getting any kind of job. Being a white male is about the most privileged one can be in Western society. I’m just saying that the solution to imbalances isn’t to introduce other imbalances.

dangus 7y ago

I think it’s way more often than people think. I’ve overheard coded conversations by my DEI department about holding off on hiring candidates because the ones they found immediately weren’t “diverse” enough. Of course, that doesn’t make sense. A single entity can’t be diverse. Instead, “diverse” is a code word for “not white male.” Look, I don’t want to work in a boys club, either, but there has to be a better way to do diversity right. And the thing about hiring is, as long as you don’t say the illegal thing out loud, and you use that coded language, you can do whatever you want. Not truly illegal, but I also think that companies with poor 401k and healthcare benefits have no interest in improving them even if the business becomes wildly profitable because the kind of employees who know better are either older or not docile enough, i.e. they’re not going to drink the kool aid and work long hours and give up competitive compensation just because they’re “changing the world.” The last thing a startup wants is a transactional employee who considers employment an exchange of cash for time. They want “believers.”

itronitron 7y ago
>> The last thing a startup wants is a transactional employee who considers employment an exchange of cash for time which is unfortunate because transactional employees will generally be less impacted by the various ups, downs, and drama that startups typically experience
- el_cujo 7y ago
  Is that really true though? I would tend to think a transactional employee would be the first to think "I don't make enough to deal with this bullshit" in the face of drama/downturns in a start-up. If it's just a "time for money" trade, after all, then there's no reason to not just jump ship when the going gets tough. My intention isn't to shame this attitude, by the way, I generally hold similar attitudes and start (casually) looking for new employment if things get too spicy at my place of work.
  - itronitron 7y ago
    There are a lot of factors for sure but I think transactional employees would be less impacted by the bullshit because they are less exposed to it due to their not socializing as much during or after working hours. Depending on experience, I would also expect them to be better at identifying potential bullshit and to be motivated to resolve uncertainty and ambiguity earlier in a process so that they can avoid working unnecessarily long hours.
el_cujo 7y ago
>And the thing about hiring is, as long as you don’t say the illegal thing out loud, and you use that coded language, you can do whatever you want. This, seems like as long as you say a candidate "isn't a good culture fit", then it's fine to discriminate based on whatever criteria you want as long as you aren't stupid enough to say out loud or in an email "we don't need any more blacks/latinos/asians/whites/women/men/etc."
commandlinefan 7y ago
> do diversity right. Well, I don’t know about you, but every place I’ve worked in the past 20 years has been mostly Indian (men and women, pretty equally). By any definition of the word, I’m actually a diverse candidate in those offices… but I still get dinged with the “is a white male” penalty.
- dangus 7y ago
  To be clear, my original comment wasn’t meant to say “think of the poor white men are getting discriminated against!” And similarly I don’t think you’re getting “dinged” at your largely-Indian company for anything. I don’t think being a white male prevents one from getting any kind of job. Being a white male is about the most privileged one can be in Western society. I’m just saying that the solution to imbalances isn’t to introduce other imbalances.