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> I don't think that aspect of the site will suffer from controversy like this in the long run. I think the unstated assumption that needs to be made is that t

> I don't think that aspect of the site will suffer from controversy like this in the long run. I think the unstated assumption that needs to be made is that the moderators that remain still do a good enough job of moderating the question so that the user contributions can be valuable. I don't know if the point-chasing ruins the questions I see; but I still see StackOverflow in the search results whenever I'm searching for error messages. Though, I've increasingly found GitHub Issues show up in the results too.

oezi 7y ago
The big question is if moderation on stackoverflow contributes anything really. Closing questions always seemed such a useless thing to me when there already is a good mechanism (downvotes) to signal that a question is 'bad'. Why add a process on top that just prevents people to interact with a question if they want to? I guess that Stackoverflow Inc. realized that the mods don't really contribute something of value.
- jacobush 7y ago
  I find that weird, the mods also keep flamewars at bay and just in general keeps things civil. If SO manages to drive the unpaid mods away, eventually they will have to start employing scores of mods themselves.
  - zaphirplane 7y ago
    Why ? Is there a shortage of people wanting to be a moderator on stackoverflow ? Maybe some obscure stack exchange areas
    - tomashubelbauer 7y ago
      Someone being eager to be a mod does not mean they'd make for a good mod. Imagine if HN was modded by a new guy every two weeks (eagerness doesn't tend to last and is not a precursor to perseverance in my opinion at least).
      - kangnkodos 7y ago
        Most jobs need less prior training than you might expect. A lot can be learned in a short period of time when you are on the job. I haven't seen any statistics, but it looks like only a few well known mods are leaving. So, almost all mods are remaining. There are a little over 600 total moods on StackExchange. Over 20 mods on the StackOverflow part of StackExchange. The announced departures from StackExchange are in the tens. For better or for worse, SO will be able to scrape by with the remaining mods. The only real problem for SO is the lack of trust. I've lost trust in the employees of SO. With every post from a SO employee, it gets worse and worse. Who are the direct competitors of SO, if any? I would like to use a different site, if possible. --- On this page which is updated daily, https://stackexchange.com/about/moderators https://stackexchange.com/about/moderators I count 629 moderators across 173 sites. --- For example, the Wayback machine shows that on December 9, 2018, the moderators on the StackOverflow part of StackExchange were these 26: Michael Myers, Robert Harvey, BoltClock, George Stocker, Brad Larson, ThiefMaster, ChrisF, Flexo, Ry-, Bohemian, meagar, Martijn Pieters, Jon Clements, josliber, Madara Uchiha, TheLostMind, Undo, deceze, Aaron Hall, Bhargav Rao, Andy, Cody Gray, Yvette Colomb, Samuel Liew, Rob, Ed Cottrell Today, I see these 23. If you remove George Stocker, 22: Michael Myers, BoltClock, George Stocker, Brad Larson, ChrisF, Flexo, Ry-, Bohemian, meagar, Martijn Pieters, Jon Clements, josliber, Madara Uchiha, Undo, deceze, Aaron Hall, Bhargav Rao, Andy, Cody Gray, Rob, Baum mit Augen, Jean-François Fabre, Samuel Liew Yes. That's a significant drop, but not enough for the users of StackOverflow to notice a difference.
        jacobush 7y ago
        I don’t see where you accounted for moderator activity?
- zaphirplane 7y ago
  Here is a company that wants to get some work done by the masses. The points system is to incentivize users, however there are administrative tasks that need to be done and mediation on conflict prone topics which can’t attract points for obvious reasons and they choose a vetted moderator model. so they anoint some trusted people as moderators Over time the moderators forget that are spending their free time working for a company in exchange for some virtual badge or title and start thinking they are responsible for a community and feel ownership Then they take a strong stance with company and are shocked to loose the virtual badges and titles Here is the thing when you are a part of a community and take a strong stance they may disagree sideline you or kick you out no surprise here and that goes 100x when it’s a company If you are working for a company in exchange for virtual badges, you are working for a company in exchange for virtual badges you are not the Shepard owner of the community And lastly on my rant when I hear “we the stack over flow moderators” i picture a wide group of people some helpful some selfless some looking to be part of a community some thinking they own the community ...
  - MauranKilom 7y ago
    > Then they take a strong stance with company and are shocked to loose the virtual badges and titles What are you describing here? There is exactly one moderator who was let go involuntarily, and she did not take any stance against the company whatsoever. I do not get the impression that you have a clear picture of what's going on. > spending their free time working for a company in exchange for some virtual badge Most of the activities you perform as a moderator do not grant badges (even if they would for "normal" users). In fact, said dismissed moderator only noticed her dismissal when she suddenly received badges for her everyday moderation work. > thinking they are responsible for a community and feel ownership There is no ownership over any community. That's just the wrong word. But the moderators are the part of the community that is closest to the company. If the company ignores the moderators, it ignores the community at large.
- Arnt 7y ago
  FYI, the moderators don't close questions. Reviewers do that. All moderators are reviewers, 99% of reviewers aren't moderators. Moderators' tasks are e.g. to determine whether a comment or answer is an insult or contains a password, and what should be done. What would be the advantage of not closing a question? I voted to close one this week that read, basically, that something unspecfied was "similar to" something correct, and asked why the unspecified thing was a syntax error. It can't be answered, why should it be left around for answerers or search engines to see?
  - bjourne 7y ago
    Closed questions are still visible to search engines. Question closing is for those who have an obsessive need to categorize things and/or like to wield power. I have never seen a SO question, or have my own question closed, and thought "Wow, that really improves the site!"
    - Arnt 7y ago
      What do you mean by visible to search engines? Where are the links to closed questions? Can the search engines see any/many links to closed questions? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/imap+ruby https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/imap+ruby doesn't link to any closed questions about using IMAP in Ruby, for example, and I do think that page would be worse if it included closed questions. https://stackoverflow.com/q/57358883 https://stackoverflow.com/q/57358883 (the most recent question tagged imap+ruby) links to about a dozen "related questions", and the list excludes closed questions. Again, I think that list would be worse if it included closed questions. Your opinion?
      - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
        I googled "Javascript code help stackoverflow" and three out of the first four results I clicked were closed questions.
        Arnt 7y ago

oezi 7y ago

The big question is if moderation on stackoverflow contributes anything really. Closing questions always seemed such a useless thing to me when there already is a good mechanism (downvotes) to signal that a question is 'bad'. Why add a process on top that just prevents people to interact with a question if they want to? I guess that Stackoverflow Inc. realized that the mods don't really contribute something of value.

jacobush 7y ago
I find that weird, the mods also keep flamewars at bay and just in general keeps things civil. If SO manages to drive the unpaid mods away, eventually they will have to start employing scores of mods themselves.
- zaphirplane 7y ago
  Why ? Is there a shortage of people wanting to be a moderator on stackoverflow ? Maybe some obscure stack exchange areas
  - tomashubelbauer 7y ago
    Someone being eager to be a mod does not mean they'd make for a good mod. Imagine if HN was modded by a new guy every two weeks (eagerness doesn't tend to last and is not a precursor to perseverance in my opinion at least).
    - kangnkodos 7y ago
      Most jobs need less prior training than you might expect. A lot can be learned in a short period of time when you are on the job. I haven't seen any statistics, but it looks like only a few well known mods are leaving. So, almost all mods are remaining. There are a little over 600 total moods on StackExchange. Over 20 mods on the StackOverflow part of StackExchange. The announced departures from StackExchange are in the tens. For better or for worse, SO will be able to scrape by with the remaining mods. The only real problem for SO is the lack of trust. I've lost trust in the employees of SO. With every post from a SO employee, it gets worse and worse. Who are the direct competitors of SO, if any? I would like to use a different site, if possible. --- On this page which is updated daily, https://stackexchange.com/about/moderators https://stackexchange.com/about/moderators I count 629 moderators across 173 sites. --- For example, the Wayback machine shows that on December 9, 2018, the moderators on the StackOverflow part of StackExchange were these 26: Michael Myers, Robert Harvey, BoltClock, George Stocker, Brad Larson, ThiefMaster, ChrisF, Flexo, Ry-, Bohemian, meagar, Martijn Pieters, Jon Clements, josliber, Madara Uchiha, TheLostMind, Undo, deceze, Aaron Hall, Bhargav Rao, Andy, Cody Gray, Yvette Colomb, Samuel Liew, Rob, Ed Cottrell Today, I see these 23. If you remove George Stocker, 22: Michael Myers, BoltClock, George Stocker, Brad Larson, ChrisF, Flexo, Ry-, Bohemian, meagar, Martijn Pieters, Jon Clements, josliber, Madara Uchiha, Undo, deceze, Aaron Hall, Bhargav Rao, Andy, Cody Gray, Rob, Baum mit Augen, Jean-François Fabre, Samuel Liew Yes. That's a significant drop, but not enough for the users of StackOverflow to notice a difference.
      - jacobush 7y ago
        I don’t see where you accounted for moderator activity?
zaphirplane 7y ago
Here is a company that wants to get some work done by the masses. The points system is to incentivize users, however there are administrative tasks that need to be done and mediation on conflict prone topics which can’t attract points for obvious reasons and they choose a vetted moderator model. so they anoint some trusted people as moderators Over time the moderators forget that are spending their free time working for a company in exchange for some virtual badge or title and start thinking they are responsible for a community and feel ownership Then they take a strong stance with company and are shocked to loose the virtual badges and titles Here is the thing when you are a part of a community and take a strong stance they may disagree sideline you or kick you out no surprise here and that goes 100x when it’s a company If you are working for a company in exchange for virtual badges, you are working for a company in exchange for virtual badges you are not the Shepard owner of the community And lastly on my rant when I hear “we the stack over flow moderators” i picture a wide group of people some helpful some selfless some looking to be part of a community some thinking they own the community ...
- MauranKilom 7y ago
  > Then they take a strong stance with company and are shocked to loose the virtual badges and titles What are you describing here? There is exactly one moderator who was let go involuntarily, and she did not take any stance against the company whatsoever. I do not get the impression that you have a clear picture of what's going on. > spending their free time working for a company in exchange for some virtual badge Most of the activities you perform as a moderator do not grant badges (even if they would for "normal" users). In fact, said dismissed moderator only noticed her dismissal when she suddenly received badges for her everyday moderation work. > thinking they are responsible for a community and feel ownership There is no ownership over any community. That's just the wrong word. But the moderators are the part of the community that is closest to the company. If the company ignores the moderators, it ignores the community at large.
Arnt 7y ago
FYI, the moderators don't close questions. Reviewers do that. All moderators are reviewers, 99% of reviewers aren't moderators. Moderators' tasks are e.g. to determine whether a comment or answer is an insult or contains a password, and what should be done. What would be the advantage of not closing a question? I voted to close one this week that read, basically, that something unspecfied was "similar to" something correct, and asked why the unspecified thing was a syntax error. It can't be answered, why should it be left around for answerers or search engines to see?
- bjourne 7y ago
  Closed questions are still visible to search engines. Question closing is for those who have an obsessive need to categorize things and/or like to wield power. I have never seen a SO question, or have my own question closed, and thought "Wow, that really improves the site!"
  - Arnt 7y ago
    What do you mean by visible to search engines? Where are the links to closed questions? Can the search engines see any/many links to closed questions? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/imap+ruby https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/imap+ruby doesn't link to any closed questions about using IMAP in Ruby, for example, and I do think that page would be worse if it included closed questions. https://stackoverflow.com/q/57358883 https://stackoverflow.com/q/57358883 (the most recent question tagged imap+ruby) links to about a dozen "related questions", and the list excludes closed questions. Again, I think that list would be worse if it included closed questions. Your opinion?
    - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
      I googled "Javascript code help stackoverflow" and three out of the first four results I clicked were closed questions.
      - Arnt 7y ago