5 ms·

My Wild Journey into the United States, and a Few Tips for Future Canadian YC’ers

29 points by parker 18y ago

dmix 18y ago
Thanks for the article, I figured it would be to difficult to get into y-cominator as a Canadian. It's a shame I didn't think this through earlier.
- parker 18y ago
  I wouldn't worry too much about it -- most every foreign-national other than me has had no problems getting in for the program. I think I just ran into a couple bad border officials. Perhaps I was even over-transparent the first time. By having so much documentation prepared, maybe I made myself look suspicious.
  - hello_moto 18y ago
    "a couple bad border officials" You haven't traveled to US that much then. I did an internship last year in Washington so I drove back-n-forth a lot with my friends and other students from UBC and SFU. Boy... all of us hate dealing with US immigration officers. Earlier this year, I had to go to US for a business trip. Things haven't changed. They're still the same Fat, Oily haired, snobbish, and stupid border officers. I remember couple months ago I saw a blog post saying that they didn't know what MacBook Air was so they thought it was a bomb or something.
  - ojbyrne 18y ago
    Trust me, you're wrong about "bad border officials." And having been in that room (at a different airport) 3 times, you also downplay the unpleasantness of it. I'm curious if you went through the fingerprint/mugshot process - can't remember if they bring that out on the first refusal or not. Anyway everytime you get refused they seem to amp up the harassment. I'm reasonably sure if I tried to reapply, they'd be doing body-cavity searches.
    - parker 18y ago
      You are 100% right about the unpleasantness of the entire ordeal. They did do the fingerprint, mugshot deal... but until I realized that he was going to refuse entry, I was being optimistic for some reason. I did go easy on them in this article... perhaps as a reflection of my own paranoia about getting back in when I need to... I had mental images of 5 idle border officials googling my name as I sat in the waiting room.
      - ojbyrne 18y ago
        Yeah, I should shut up too ;-)
abstractbill 18y ago
US immigration policy is awful. I spent four years in a dead-end cube-land job waiting for my Green Card before I could join a startup. I agree with the hints at the end of the post. I would add that having a PhD did help me a couple of times, so if you have one, make sure people know about it.
nraynaud 18y ago
Maybe the smartest thing to do is avoiding United States altogether, collaborating with this kind of dumb rules is only reinforcing this kind of behavior since people keep trying to get in even when bothered. You voted with your wallet, you can now vote with your passport. Moreover, some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring benefits to the world, monoculture is toxic in the long run.
- marvin 18y ago
  That would be a fine thing if Silicon Valley was in Canada.
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  Moreover, some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring benefits to the world, monoculture is toxic in the long run. While this is true, it'll be years (probably decades) before starting technology startups anywhere else in the world is as likely to succeed as it is in the US (particularly Silicon Valley, but Boston will do, in a pinch, I guess). You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. But, hopefully, some of the Brits and Canadians and Indians, etc. who come to the states to build their startups will strike it rich, and go back home and help develop a startup friendly culture. It'll still be decades before any place is as big as the valley, but it'll be a start.
  - nraynaud 18y ago
    The more people move to Silicon Valley to start their venture, the more time will pass before its easier to do so in their hometown. Moreover, maybe the Silicon Valley way of thing is not the only way to bring innovation, maybe Nigerian people have another economical system to do this, maybe there can be a Spanish way of doing thing things, a Brazilian way etc. I'm sure that the best way to do things the Silicon Valley's way is moving there, but where's the innovation apart from the product ? But I have a Silicon Valley tale : Steve Jobs, if he distorts reality and makes his twisted ideas of reality become the real reality, it's not by conforming to established things. He creates his battleground, convoke his enemies on it and then fight. There's some "second order" risk to take : not only you risk to fail in your venture, but you can take a higher risk by failing in the way you start your venture. Going to a rural area, taking money from other people than VCs, and doing something that's neither electronics nor a web 2.0 website (nor a traditional business, of course). And with this additional risk, comes a reward.
konsl 18y ago
Under a B-1 visa, you're not allowed to work for a US company or receive any money while you're in the US. Since YC is a program that clearly intends to fund a US company of yours, it's no surprise that you were put under additional scrutiny. The border officials were just doing their job.
- parker 18y ago
  Their 'additional scrutiny' concluded that I was a student even though I had massive amounts of documentation pointing to the exact opposite conclusion. It is their job to investigate extra-ordinary situations. Suggesting that I needed a student visa was just plain wrong.
pg 18y ago
One thing that may help is not to call YC a "program." We stopped calling it that a long time ago, because it gives people the wrong impression.
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  What is the preferred term then?
  - pg 18y ago
    Depends on the context. The most common is to talk about the summer or winter funding cycle. What I'd tell an immigration official is that I was going to work with some investors who had agreed to invest in my startup. I am not an expert in what to tell immigration officials, though.
hugh 18y ago
He's not kidding about the beard thing. When I was 22 I went on a six-week round-the-world trip without packing a razor. By the end I had a terrible unkempt beard, and was getting "randomly" selected for extra searches at every airport.
- nraynaud 18y ago
  That's funny, I have such a photo on my passport (I didn't care my beard as a student), I can't imagine the scrutiny I would receive at such an anti-Islamic border. As a side note, I had no extra problem at Buenos Aires even if I made a major custom mistake (I got back into the international area after having received the entrance stamp), they understood I was lost. The Argentina capital was victim of 2 big bomb attack by some Islamic extremists (29 and 85 dead) but seems to not have instated hate and arbitrary humiliations as a security policy since.
delano 18y ago
The only two countries that I've had difficulty entering on business trips are the US and the UK. In my experience they appear to be concerned more with people having recourse to public funds and jobs rather than terrorism. There's something particularly arbitrary about the process at the US border though. I've traveled to the US for meetings from Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal and I've been refused entry twice -- both in Vancouver (which is also my home town). The reasons weren't entirely clear but at least one of the times they had simply left me sitting until there were no more flights. The other time there was an exceptionally high number of people detained so it's possible they were concerned with something else altogether. re: the beard. Young beards are probably interpreted as an indication more of slovenliness than extremist sympathies. It's part of the mandate at the US and UK borders to weed out the cunning, young beards in seek of a fresh, clean-shaven start.
- delackner 18y ago
  Honestly, the beard thing has nothing to do with religion. Immigration officials, like all minimum wage dictators (and most people generally, unfortunately) still often have the mistaken impression that suit and tie = money, bearded and scruffy = poor. It is a whole other question why some of the worst paid people feel such a need to look down on others.
nanijoe 18y ago
How about just saying you are going for a business meeting? The Canadian officials seem to find that satisfactory every time I go there, so I don't see why it won't work in the reverse direction.
gruseom 18y ago
A few years ago I went to work in the Valley on a TN visa. You couldn't get that visa as a programmer (though programmers were what the US needed). Programmers, in fact, were explicitly off the list, and if you said you were going to write code it was cause for immediate rejection. Your job had to be "systems analyst". That was on the list. So I got a job offer as a "systems analyst". I have a math degree not CS, and was expecting that to be a bit of an issue. It did indeed come up. The INS officer looked at me in that suspicious way that minor security officials have and asked, very slowly: "How does your degree in mathematics qualify you to be a systems analyst?" I replied, very slowly, "The company wants me to use my mathematical background to analyse their system." His response: "OK". That was the end of the interview.
gunderson 18y ago
As an American citizen, I would like to say how embarrassed I am that our border security put you through that process. I think anyone who wants to ought to be allowed to enter the US to work.
- ovi256 18y ago
  Tell that to the guys that are competing with Mexicans for jobs. I'm not saying they are right, just that I can see how high ideals like freedom of movement fly out the window the moment your job is threatened.
  - gunderson 18y ago
    I'm also embarrassed about those people. We live in a global economy, why should I have to pay extra to someone who thinks that his/her citizenship entitles him/her to an above-market wage when there is a hard working person willing to do the work for less? It is disgraceful that hardworking people all over the world starve while here in the US people feel entitled to complain about their jobs being "taken".

29 points by parker 18y ago

dmix 18y ago

Thanks for the article, I figured it would be to difficult to get into y-cominator as a Canadian. It's a shame I didn't think this through earlier.

parker 18y ago
I wouldn't worry too much about it -- most every foreign-national other than me has had no problems getting in for the program. I think I just ran into a couple bad border officials. Perhaps I was even over-transparent the first time. By having so much documentation prepared, maybe I made myself look suspicious.
- hello_moto 18y ago
  "a couple bad border officials" You haven't traveled to US that much then. I did an internship last year in Washington so I drove back-n-forth a lot with my friends and other students from UBC and SFU. Boy... all of us hate dealing with US immigration officers. Earlier this year, I had to go to US for a business trip. Things haven't changed. They're still the same Fat, Oily haired, snobbish, and stupid border officers. I remember couple months ago I saw a blog post saying that they didn't know what MacBook Air was so they thought it was a bomb or something.
- ojbyrne 18y ago
  Trust me, you're wrong about "bad border officials." And having been in that room (at a different airport) 3 times, you also downplay the unpleasantness of it. I'm curious if you went through the fingerprint/mugshot process - can't remember if they bring that out on the first refusal or not. Anyway everytime you get refused they seem to amp up the harassment. I'm reasonably sure if I tried to reapply, they'd be doing body-cavity searches.
  - parker 18y ago
    You are 100% right about the unpleasantness of the entire ordeal. They did do the fingerprint, mugshot deal... but until I realized that he was going to refuse entry, I was being optimistic for some reason. I did go easy on them in this article... perhaps as a reflection of my own paranoia about getting back in when I need to... I had mental images of 5 idle border officials googling my name as I sat in the waiting room.
    - ojbyrne 18y ago
      Yeah, I should shut up too ;-)

abstractbill 18y ago

US immigration policy is awful. I spent four years in a dead-end cube-land job waiting for my Green Card before I could join a startup. I agree with the hints at the end of the post. I would add that having a PhD did help me a couple of times, so if you have one, make sure people know about it.

nraynaud 18y ago

Maybe the smartest thing to do is avoiding United States altogether, collaborating with this kind of dumb rules is only reinforcing this kind of behavior since people keep trying to get in even when bothered. You voted with your wallet, you can now vote with your passport. Moreover, some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring benefits to the world, monoculture is toxic in the long run.

marvin 18y ago
That would be a fine thing if Silicon Valley was in Canada.
SwellJoe 18y ago
Moreover, some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring benefits to the world, monoculture is toxic in the long run. While this is true, it'll be years (probably decades) before starting technology startups anywhere else in the world is as likely to succeed as it is in the US (particularly Silicon Valley, but Boston will do, in a pinch, I guess). You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. But, hopefully, some of the Brits and Canadians and Indians, etc. who come to the states to build their startups will strike it rich, and go back home and help develop a startup friendly culture. It'll still be decades before any place is as big as the valley, but it'll be a start.
- nraynaud 18y ago
  The more people move to Silicon Valley to start their venture, the more time will pass before its easier to do so in their hometown. Moreover, maybe the Silicon Valley way of thing is not the only way to bring innovation, maybe Nigerian people have another economical system to do this, maybe there can be a Spanish way of doing thing things, a Brazilian way etc. I'm sure that the best way to do things the Silicon Valley's way is moving there, but where's the innovation apart from the product ? But I have a Silicon Valley tale : Steve Jobs, if he distorts reality and makes his twisted ideas of reality become the real reality, it's not by conforming to established things. He creates his battleground, convoke his enemies on it and then fight. There's some "second order" risk to take : not only you risk to fail in your venture, but you can take a higher risk by failing in the way you start your venture. Going to a rural area, taking money from other people than VCs, and doing something that's neither electronics nor a web 2.0 website (nor a traditional business, of course). And with this additional risk, comes a reward.

konsl 18y ago

Under a B-1 visa, you're not allowed to work for a US company or receive any money while you're in the US. Since YC is a program that clearly intends to fund a US company of yours, it's no surprise that you were put under additional scrutiny. The border officials were just doing their job.

parker 18y ago
Their 'additional scrutiny' concluded that I was a student even though I had massive amounts of documentation pointing to the exact opposite conclusion. It is their job to investigate extra-ordinary situations. Suggesting that I needed a student visa was just plain wrong.

pg 18y ago

One thing that may help is not to call YC a "program." We stopped calling it that a long time ago, because it gives people the wrong impression.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
What is the preferred term then?
- pg 18y ago
  Depends on the context. The most common is to talk about the summer or winter funding cycle. What I'd tell an immigration official is that I was going to work with some investors who had agreed to invest in my startup. I am not an expert in what to tell immigration officials, though.

hugh 18y ago

He's not kidding about the beard thing. When I was 22 I went on a six-week round-the-world trip without packing a razor. By the end I had a terrible unkempt beard, and was getting "randomly" selected for extra searches at every airport.

nraynaud 18y ago
That's funny, I have such a photo on my passport (I didn't care my beard as a student), I can't imagine the scrutiny I would receive at such an anti-Islamic border. As a side note, I had no extra problem at Buenos Aires even if I made a major custom mistake (I got back into the international area after having received the entrance stamp), they understood I was lost. The Argentina capital was victim of 2 big bomb attack by some Islamic extremists (29 and 85 dead) but seems to not have instated hate and arbitrary humiliations as a security policy since.

delano 18y ago

The only two countries that I've had difficulty entering on business trips are the US and the UK. In my experience they appear to be concerned more with people having recourse to public funds and jobs rather than terrorism. There's something particularly arbitrary about the process at the US border though. I've traveled to the US for meetings from Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal and I've been refused entry twice -- both in Vancouver (which is also my home town). The reasons weren't entirely clear but at least one of the times they had simply left me sitting until there were no more flights. The other time there was an exceptionally high number of people detained so it's possible they were concerned with something else altogether. re: the beard. Young beards are probably interpreted as an indication more of slovenliness than extremist sympathies. It's part of the mandate at the US and UK borders to weed out the cunning, young beards in seek of a fresh, clean-shaven start.

delackner 18y ago
Honestly, the beard thing has nothing to do with religion. Immigration officials, like all minimum wage dictators (and most people generally, unfortunately) still often have the mistaken impression that suit and tie = money, bearded and scruffy = poor. It is a whole other question why some of the worst paid people feel such a need to look down on others.

nanijoe 18y ago

How about just saying you are going for a business meeting? The Canadian officials seem to find that satisfactory every time I go there, so I don't see why it won't work in the reverse direction.

gruseom 18y ago

A few years ago I went to work in the Valley on a TN visa. You couldn't get that visa as a programmer (though programmers were what the US needed). Programmers, in fact, were explicitly off the list, and if you said you were going to write code it was cause for immediate rejection. Your job had to be "systems analyst". That was on the list. So I got a job offer as a "systems analyst". I have a math degree not CS, and was expecting that to be a bit of an issue. It did indeed come up. The INS officer looked at me in that suspicious way that minor security officials have and asked, very slowly: "How does your degree in mathematics qualify you to be a systems analyst?" I replied, very slowly, "The company wants me to use my mathematical background to analyse their system." His response: "OK". That was the end of the interview.

gunderson 18y ago

As an American citizen, I would like to say how embarrassed I am that our border security put you through that process. I think anyone who wants to ought to be allowed to enter the US to work.

ovi256 18y ago
Tell that to the guys that are competing with Mexicans for jobs. I'm not saying they are right, just that I can see how high ideals like freedom of movement fly out the window the moment your job is threatened.
- gunderson 18y ago
  I'm also embarrassed about those people. We live in a global economy, why should I have to pay extra to someone who thinks that his/her citizenship entitles him/her to an above-market wage when there is a hard working person willing to do the work for less? It is disgraceful that hardworking people all over the world starve while here in the US people feel entitled to complain about their jobs being "taken".